1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,480 Welcome to the final episode of Mothers in Academia. 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,840 Over this mini-series we've explored the challenges, 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:10,320 joys and resilience that convert balancing 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:12,640 motherhood and academic careers. 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:17,400 I'm Cagla and today we're honored to be joined by a special guest Dr. 6 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:21,680 Anne-Marie Broomhall, an Associate Professor from the Centre for Fusion, 7 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,920 Space and Astrophysics in the Department of Physics at the University of ÌÇÐÄTV. 8 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:29,400 Together we'll reflect on the insights we've gained, 9 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,800 hear her unique perspective and leave you with some final thoughts and 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,800 encouragement for your journey. 11 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,240 Thank you for joining us. 12 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:41,000 Let's close this chapter with inspiration and hope for the road ahead. 13 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,120 Welcome to our final episode Dr. Brimhull. 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,000 Our first question is, can you share a bit about your journey 15 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,760 into becoming an academician in physics, astrophysics in particular? 16 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:59,880 So I only decided that I wanted to do astrophysics when I was about 17, 17 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,360 which is actually relatively old for astrophysics. 18 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:08,680 Lots of people enjoy astrophysics from a very young age. 19 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,000 There was a solar eclipse that was visible in the UK in 1999. 20 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,440 I was able to watch it from my back garden here in Coventry using a pinhole camera 21 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:23,960 that I made out of a shoebox. 22 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:30,200 And I just loved the simplicity of using a shoebox to be able to observe something 23 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:34,360 that was happening with the sun, which is a star. 24 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:42,120 So following that, I decided that I wanted to do astrophysics at university. 25 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:46,680 So I went to the University of Sheffield where I got a master's degree. 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:49,480 It was a dual honours degree in maths and astrophysics. 27 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:58,760 And I did the dual honours because I was good at maths, but I probably enjoyed the astrophysics side 28 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,880 a bit more and so I was just hedging my bets a little bit. 29 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:10,040 When I was at university, I was lucky enough to do some research projects in my final year 30 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,960 to astro astronomy research projects, one on black holes and one on the sun. 31 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,560 And while the black holes one was fascinating, it was the fact that with the sun, 32 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:28,920 I could make, I was testing theories with data, whereas the black hole one, it was very abstract 33 00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:31,480 and there's no way to test the theories I was coming up with. 34 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:38,280 And I really enjoyed that research project and so I decided to do a PhD in astrophysics. 35 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,080 And so I moved to the University of Birmingham, 36 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,760 which is much closer to my hometown, Coventry. 37 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:51,800 I actually commuted from Coventry to Birmingham during my PhD. 38 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:56,840 So that was in solar physics or a field called heliosysemology specifically, 39 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:03,720 which is where we use oscillations of the sun in order to work out what's going on inside the sun. 40 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:05,880 Wow, sounds really cool. 41 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:12,360 Yeah. So I got my PhD, I was awarded in 2008. 42 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:17,480 I then stayed at Birmingham for a postdoc position, 43 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:23,080 where during which time I had my first daughter, Abby. 44 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:32,760 And during that time, I decided that I did one at career 45 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,960 in academia until I started applying for fellowships. 46 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:43,880 And we were getting towards the end of my contract. 47 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,200 And I was just starting to look at jobs outside of academia. 48 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:56,440 And when an opportunity came up at the University of ÌÇÐÄTV for a global research fellowship. 49 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,360 So this was a fellowship at the Institute of Advanced Studies. 50 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,280 And I was interviewed for this at nine months pregnant 51 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:15,160 with my second daughter. I managed to get the position and I've been here ever since. 52 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:21,080 That sounds super cool. But were there any moments during this journey when you felt 53 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:26,600 like you had to choose between your family and career? Well, especially at the beginning, 54 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,560 when you mentioned this, having a small baby and then getting pregnant again, 55 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,760 before you have a permanent role. So how did you navigate those decisions? 56 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:45,720 So we actually, in my mind, we made the decisions before having the children in the first place. 57 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:55,320 So I don't know if it's the same across the different disciplines, but within astrophysics, 58 00:04:55,880 --> 00:05:02,200 it's kind of conventional wisdom that if you want a career in academia, you have to be willing to 59 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:11,640 travel around to move to different locations or countries even to have postdocs. And since 60 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:18,600 we decided to start a family pretty much straight after submitting my PhD, 61 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:27,400 I decided that that was not something that I was willing to do because I wanted my family. And so 62 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:35,400 I was willing to take the chance, if you like, that if it meant that I wasn't going to have a 63 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:42,040 career in academia, then so be it. I wanted to stay and raise a family and try and do both 64 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:52,200 as luckily enough. I managed to. So that's kind of proof that you don't need to move around, 65 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:59,800 I guess. No, I can imagine. But yeah, so but it was that kind of acceptance before even having 66 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:10,520 the children that that was what I was going to do. Similarly, I kind of set boundaries and limits on 67 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:15,800 what I was willing to do. So another example would be going to conferences. So this plays a 68 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:25,160 big role in academia. But I decided that I would limit the number of conferences I went to and 69 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:31,800 how long I was away for for those conferences. So for example, weekends are very special to me. 70 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:39,320 And so I kind of said, before even having the children, I always want to be home for the weekends. 71 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:45,800 And then I just decide which conferences are going to be most important to me. Go to those ones 72 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,920 and make sure I travel home on Friday if the worst case scenario. 73 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:58,520 Well, that's very inspiring, to be honest. But going back and thinking your specialty, 74 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:05,960 have you ever faced an agenda based challenges or biases as a mother in a, especially in a male 75 00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:12,840 dominated field? You know, it could be if you're not enough to perform as a specific role because 76 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:19,080 of your parenting role. Do you remember any specific incidents? I have to say that actually, 77 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:27,800 as far as I'm aware, I haven't experienced anything like that. And in fact, I have a couple of examples 78 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:33,400 of pretty good practice. If you don't mind me sharing those with you. I would be happy to hear 79 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:39,640 all of them. Yes, please. So for example, I said earlier that I was nine minutes pregnant when I 80 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:46,280 interviewed for the position at ÌÇÐÄTV. And to help me make that transition to moving to ÌÇÐÄTV, 81 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:56,280 they let me start part time and build up slowly to full working hours so that I was coming straight 82 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:01,400 back here after maternity leave. And they even gave me a bonus to cover the lost maternity pay 83 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:11,560 for moving jobs. While maternity leave, when I started teaching, I was initially assigned a role 84 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:18,680 that was in the undergraduate teaching labs that finish at six o'clock at night. And I had to say 85 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:24,760 I'm really sorry, but I can't do that because my childcare also ends at six o'clock at night. 86 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:31,240 And that was absolutely fine. It was not an issue. They just moved me onto another teaching role that 87 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:38,760 one that finished at four o'clock. And so they were happy within the physics department to work 88 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:47,720 around my needs. And actually, I think that can be one of the bonuses of being a mom in academia 89 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:54,360 is that aside from certain meetings and teachings, there is a bit a degree of flexibility 90 00:08:54,360 --> 00:09:01,400 in the hours that you work. So quite often, I was able to go to assemblers and things like that and 91 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:10,920 just start at 10 o'clock in the morning rather than at eight 30, say. And then all I would do is 92 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:18,040 I would then pick my children up as usual. And once they'd gone to bed, perhaps make up the time 93 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:26,600 in the evening. So I think there are actually a few benefits. These are fantastic practices. 94 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:31,240 So I hope that that will inspire so many departments or other universities. 95 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:41,160 So I'll move on to a different topic if that's okay. As a mother of two, one 12 and one 15. 96 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:49,800 Are there any challenging times at home? So like, how do you regulate the emotions of your 97 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:58,280 children, especially when there are strong feelings? So I don't know that we have too many problems. 98 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:08,040 It's good. Yeah. And I think it partly comes because it's their expectations. It's normal 99 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:18,840 for them. They know that I have work. And so if I have to say no, because of work, then they kind 100 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:25,160 of understand that. And particularly now they're a bit older. There's an appreciation that I love 101 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:33,320 my job. And they quite like that I love my job. And so they understand that I can't always go on 102 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:42,760 school trips and things like that. Because because of work. And again, the flexibility 103 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:51,560 kind of helps there as well. So just the other night, my daughter is revising for her maths mock 104 00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:59,160 GCSE. And I was able to sort of just pause my work for half an hour or an hour or something, 105 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,640 and go and help her out with her revision and then come back to it later. 106 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:12,920 Oh, that's nice. So when we summarise this, how do you juggle work and motherhood? Do you 107 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:20,600 always do it all, say to speak? Yeah, absolutely not. I mean, first and foremost, I have a lot of 108 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:27,480 help. My husband has always been very supportive of my career. And it really is a partnership in terms 109 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:32,840 of the childcare. The fact that I've stayed in commentary, which where I was born also means 110 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:39,560 that I have a lot of family around me. So grandparents and aunts and uncles who can help as well. 111 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:50,600 But then, in addition to that, I kind of think that I have decided on my priorities. 112 00:11:50,840 --> 00:12:01,080 And then, it's taken time, but I've developed an ability to just let the things that aren't 113 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:13,480 important to me go. So to give some examples, there are times when it can be difficult to 114 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:22,280 manage to cook a healthy dinner when you've had a full day at work. And so I've become comfortable 115 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,360 going, okay, I've been working hard today, let's just throw a pizza in the oven. 116 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:35,880 When the children were little, and they first started school, I was very concerned because 117 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:43,640 I wasn't, I didn't have time to make all the fancy costumes and things like that for all the 118 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:53,240 assemblers and dress-up days. And I quickly, though, became aware that the kids just, they were fine 119 00:12:53,240 --> 00:13:01,000 with whatever we came up with between us. And it was more that I was more concerned about it 120 00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:09,240 than they were. And so it's sort of working out like, okay, so some things might be really 121 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:16,200 important to me and I make sure that they happen every week, but then other things I kind of just 122 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:24,760 let go. Yeah, that's a top tip. Thank you. And thank God we've got Amazon. Yeah, absolutely. 123 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:34,920 So, speaking of doing it all, I'd like to move on to this topic, time management, because when we 124 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:44,040 came up with this project, this topic has come up so often. Although some experts 125 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:50,040 will suggest giving female PhD students or early career researchers time management tips, 126 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:57,640 I strongly believe mothers in academia are superstars at managing time. Do you feel the same? 127 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:05,080 Absolutely, I do. And I know from my personal experience that it was something that I became 128 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:11,320 a lot better at when I became a mother. And I think it's having that hard cut off that you have to 129 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:17,800 be home by a specific time. And you know that, you know that at the start of the day. And so 130 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:26,120 I definitely get less distracted now. I'm more organized with my time. I always sort of set 131 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:32,760 if I have a meeting, I like it to be at a specific time and for a particular length 132 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:41,880 of time rather than just, okay, I'll chat to you on Tuesday. But other things that I do to help 133 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:48,360 me manage my time. I like making lists, because it helps me to prioritize and it stops me from 134 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:55,880 being overwhelmed. So if I feel like I've got a lot of things on, I'll make a list of everything 135 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:02,040 I need to do and the deadline for them. And that helps me to work out what needs to be done first, 136 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:08,280 what I can push back. And also that physical process of crossing stuff off on the list. 137 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:13,640 I love that. So rewarding. And it just makes you feel more like you're making progress. 138 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:19,000 Yeah, just crossing out something from the list. That's a huge enjoyment. 139 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,560 Even if it's just the smallest thing on there, it's just like, okay, that's one less thing that I 140 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:33,800 have to get done. But do you have a switch off? Well, I mean, here is, do you ever set aside work 141 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:42,200 and parenting and enjoy a quiet moment and manage to not think anything at the back of your mind? 142 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:50,520 Yeah, it's got a lot easier as the children have got older, I would say. I always sort of tried to 143 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:57,160 set aside maybe the last hour before going to bed once the kids have gone to bed just for some quiet 144 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:07,240 time, set on watch TV and do do nothing. I also took up running a few years ago. So 145 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:15,960 to lose weight initially. But what I realized particularly over the pandemic, 146 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:23,080 when we were all homeschooling and things like that was that actually, I was no longer running as 147 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:29,240 much for the health benefits. I certainly wasn't running to be my personal best. I was running 148 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:35,320 to get half an hour quiet time where I can put a podcast on and just tune the rest of the world 149 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:45,880 out. So that's one thing that I like to do now. We have always though, tried to do things with the 150 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:56,440 kids that we enjoy as well. So not just things that they want to do. So we will go on walks in 151 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:04,200 the countryside on bike rides. I love baking. And that's something that I did with my children, 152 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:10,520 craft arts and crafts, things like that. Because if you're doing something that you want to do, 153 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:21,080 then that can be as relaxing as sort of tuning out things. And yeah, we always also 154 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:29,240 made sure we had a family holiday every year. So that could be a case of sort of booking a week, 155 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:35,160 just booking a week out of the diary for August, but booking it in January so that you know that 156 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:41,240 that week has been set aside for family time. And that's something that we've done every year 157 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:47,640 ever since the children have been born. Oh, that's so nice. So that they know that's going to come 158 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:53,480 and expect that. And it's something to look forward to. Yeah, definitely. And it's such a nice bonding 159 00:17:53,480 --> 00:18:01,160 time. And sort of being that having a full week away rather than just the odd day, I think makes a 160 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:09,720 big difference. I think so. I agree. I love doing that. Definitely. We just touched upon this, but 161 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:14,760 there is also the positive side of being a mum in academia, because you set a role for your 162 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:20,920 children role model for your children. How do you ensure that your children understand and 163 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:27,800 appreciate the work you do as an astrophysicist? Because this is super cool. What do you hope 164 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:34,360 they would take away from your example? So I guess there's a couple of different things there. So 165 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:41,800 I've always talked about my work and my research with my children. And I've also talked about 166 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:52,520 sort of strong female role models. So my eldest daughter had to dress up as a hero at school 167 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:58,680 one year and she went as Marie Curie. And she's still obsessed with chemistry and 168 00:18:59,960 --> 00:19:06,760 wants to go to university to do chemistry. My youngest daughter loves power points. 169 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:12,680 So she has taken some of the power points that I have given her talks and she'll go through 170 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:19,880 and give her own little presentation using the slides. Oh, that's so exploring. I've also 171 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:26,360 one other things that they really like, because I do quite a lot of public engagement and outreach. 172 00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:32,840 So I go out and visit schools across Coventry and Mauritia. But that includes their schools and 173 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:39,640 their classes while they've been there. So they're always very proud, I think, to see me presenting, 174 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:46,360 presenting my work and doing activities with their classmates. And they've also, 175 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:53,960 on occasion, been named to come and help me with these outreach activities. So they'll help out 176 00:19:53,960 --> 00:20:00,440 when we've been to sort of guide and brownie nights, for example, doing the live labs before 177 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:04,680 the Christmas lectures, they've been there as well, so things like that. So they get to know 178 00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:15,000 the work that I've done, that I do really well. And I guess, like I said earlier, they like that I 179 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:26,360 like my job. And I think that is something that they take away from my career is that you can get 180 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:33,160 jobs that you enjoy. If you work hard enough, you know, and that actually makes a really big 181 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:40,040 difference to your home life. If you're enjoying your job, I think I'm probably a happier person, 182 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:47,480 because I don't dread going to work on Monday morning. Yeah, that is super important. I agree. 183 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:56,120 So before we finish, what advice would you give to female PhD students with children like me? 184 00:20:56,120 --> 00:21:06,040 We're trying to find their way in academia. So I think it's to find your own way of doing things 185 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:11,640 and to decide what is important to you and to prioritize and make sure that you keep the 186 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:20,040 important things, but don't stress about the not important things. And also, it definitely gets 187 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:27,240 easier. Like I think I've said a few times, as the kids have got older, everything has got easier. 188 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:34,600 And even sort of the downtime, I've gone from a stage where most of the time I was either playing 189 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:40,200 with the kids or helping the kids with homework or things like that. So now they want to spend time 190 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:46,120 up in their room and I've had to find a whole new bench upon the hobbies to occupy myself, 191 00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:52,360 just so that I don't work and to give me that sort of turn out turn off time. 192 00:21:52,360 --> 00:22:00,280 Oh, that's lovely to hear. Thank you very much for your contribution to our mini series, Dr. Brimhall. 193 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:06,360 Thank you for having me. Oh, that's wonderful. And that wraps up our mini series, 194 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:12,120 Mothers in Academia. It has been a privilege to share this space with you, exploring the challenges 195 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:18,280 and triumphs of balancing motherhood and academic careers. We've had powerful stories shared 196 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:24,280 insights and hopefully sparkled conversations that will continue to inspire and support you on your 197 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:30,360 journey. Thank you for listening, for sharing your stories and for being part of this important 198 00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:36,040 dialogue. Stay connected, keep the conversations going and let's continue building a supportive, 199 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:50,280 thriving community for Mothers in Academia. Until next time, take care and keep inspiring. 200 00:22:54,280 --> 00:23:04,280 Thank you.