WEBVTT

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/210-0
00:00:26.328 --> 00:00:31.201
<v Madan, Jason>So we lose all of our health economic
capacity, you know, in one fell swoop.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/210-1
00:00:31.201 --> 00:00:34.556
<v Madan, Jason>But, you know,
a big welcome to everybody to today's</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/210-2
00:00:34.556 --> 00:00:39.304
<v Madan, Jason>inaugural lecture, Professor Jason Madden,
family, friends and colleagues,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/210-3
00:00:39.304 --> 00:00:43.924
<v Madan, Jason>welcome to this inaugural lecture.
An inaugural lecture is a significant</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/210-4
00:00:43.924 --> 00:00:48.608
<v Madan, Jason>milestone in an academic's career,
marking their promotion to the rank of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/210-5
00:00:48.608 --> 00:00:51.836
<v Madan, Jason>professor.
And this title is not something that is</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/210-6
00:00:51.836 --> 00:00:55.381
<v Madan, Jason>conferred lightly.
It follows a rigorous and reflective</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/210-7
00:00:55.381 --> 00:00:55.888
<v Madan, Jason>process.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/235-0
00:00:56.528 --> 00:00:59.423
<v Madan, Jason>Acknowledges not only outstanding
achievements,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/235-1
00:00:59.423 --> 00:01:03.644
<v Madan, Jason>but also the deepest respect and
admiration of peers and the academic</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/235-2
00:01:03.644 --> 00:01:04.248
<v Madan, Jason>community.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/296-0
00:01:05.328 --> 00:01:09.923
<v Madan, Jason>Becoming a professor on as an
individual's exceptional contribution and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/296-1
00:01:09.923 --> 00:01:14.965
<v Madan, Jason>the meaningful impact that they've made
both within their field and across the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/296-2
00:01:14.965 --> 00:01:20.007
<v Madan, Jason>wider landscape of health education,
it also sets a high bar for the future as</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/296-3
00:01:20.007 --> 00:01:24.283
<v Madan, Jason>the title carries with it
responsibilities to uphold the values of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/296-4
00:01:24.283 --> 00:01:27.474
<v Madan, Jason>collegiality,
academic freedom and the relentless</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/296-5
00:01:27.474 --> 00:01:31.368
<v Madan, Jason>pursuit of knowledge and impact and the
benefits of society.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/326-0
00:01:32.368 --> 00:01:36.109
<v Madan, Jason>At 糖心TV Medical School,
our vision is to transform health through</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/326-1
00:01:36.109 --> 00:01:38.603
<v Madan, Jason>innovative education and research
excellence,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/326-2
00:01:38.603 --> 00:01:42.777
<v Madan, Jason>and we're incredibly fortunate to have
Jason as part of our professori at an</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/326-3
00:01:42.777 --> 00:01:43.808
<v Madan, Jason>academic community.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/378-0
00:01:45.088 --> 00:01:49.563
<v Madan, Jason>Jason joined 糖心TV in 2012,
following roles in Bristol and Sheffield,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/378-1
00:01:49.563 --> 00:01:54.661
<v Madan, Jason>and since then we've witnessed his career
flourish progressing from the system to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/378-2
00:01:54.661 --> 00:01:59.447
<v Madan, Jason>associate and now on to full professor.
As director of the Centre for Health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/378-3
00:01:59.447 --> 00:02:03.985
<v Madan, Jason>Economics, Jason leads by example.
He embodies the very best of academic</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/378-4
00:02:03.985 --> 00:02:06.845
<v Madan, Jason>life,
combining excellence in research with a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/378-5
00:02:06.845 --> 00:02:08.648
<v Madan, Jason>deep commitment to education.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/390-0
00:02:09.528 --> 00:02:13.768
<v Madan, Jason>His leadership and mentorship continues
to inspire students and colleagues alike.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/452-0
00:02:15.068 --> 00:02:20.111
<v Madan, Jason>Jason's research and health economic
evaluation addresses critical challenges</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/452-1
00:02:20.111 --> 00:02:23.344
<v Madan, Jason>in cancer,
infectious diseases and mental health,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/452-2
00:02:23.344 --> 00:02:27.482
<v Madan, Jason>both locally and globally,
informing health policy and practise</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/452-3
00:02:27.482 --> 00:02:32.332
<v Madan, Jason>exemplifies the power of applied
interdisciplinary research to make a real</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/452-4
00:02:32.332 --> 00:02:35.500
<v Madan, Jason>world impact.
I'm really looking forward to your</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/452-5
00:02:35.500 --> 00:02:40.608
<v Madan, Jason>presentation. If I were the money man,
the challengers and joys of a career in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/452-6
00:02:40.608 --> 00:02:41.708
<v Madan, Jason>health economics.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/466-0
00:02:42.488 --> 00:02:46.764
<v Madan, Jason>It promises to offer fantastic insights
into the rewarding and often complex</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/466-1
00:02:46.764 --> 00:02:48.208
<v Madan, Jason>world of health economics.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/480-0
00:02:49.278 --> 00:02:52.095
<v Madan, Jason>Contribution to both the local and
international stage.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/480-1
00:02:52.095 --> 00:02:54.158
<v Madan, Jason>Looking forward to talk Jason. Thank you.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/483-0
00:02:57.368 --> 00:02:58.568
<v Madan, Jason>And thank you.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/500-0
00:03:04.768 --> 00:03:06.975
<v Madan, Jason>So I'd like to thank you all for coming
today.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/500-1
00:03:06.975 --> 00:03:10.686
<v Madan, Jason>I'd like to thank Gavin in the medical
school for those very kind and generous</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/500-2
00:03:10.686 --> 00:03:10.968
<v Madan, Jason>words.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/535-0
00:03:12.808 --> 00:03:17.080
<v Madan, Jason>For the chance to stand up here and talk
about myself and my discipline for almost</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/535-1
00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:21.455
<v Madan, Jason>a whole hour, but most importantly of all,
for giving me a professional home for the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/535-2
00:03:21.455 --> 00:03:23.977
<v Madan, Jason>last 13 years.
And if you were to ask my family,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/535-3
00:03:23.977 --> 00:03:26.088
<v Madan, Jason>and you can. They're here today. Welcome.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/591-0
00:03:26.788 --> 00:03:31.446
<v Madan, Jason>I hope you're to ask me if I've they
thought they're gonna stick anything out</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/591-1
00:03:31.446 --> 00:03:36.522
<v Madan, Jason>for that long. I'll bet they'd say no way.
And the fact I have reflects not just how</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/591-2
00:03:36.522 --> 00:03:40.105
<v Madan, Jason>great it is to work at what medical
school. I can say that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/591-3
00:03:40.105 --> 00:03:43.568
<v Madan, Jason>I'd say that even if you weren't here,
gap and I promise,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/591-4
00:03:43.568 --> 00:03:48.226
<v Madan, Jason>but also how health economics is is a
fascinating and rewarding field to work</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/591-5
00:03:48.226 --> 00:03:50.555
<v Madan, Jason>in.
And so I want to share with you my</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/591-6
00:03:50.555 --> 00:03:52.228
<v Madan, Jason>colleagues and family today.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/601-0
00:03:53.008 --> 00:03:56.008
<v Madan, Jason>Why it's such a joyful thing to work in,
but in the interests of balance.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/639-0
00:03:56.688 --> 00:04:00.146
<v Madan, Jason>I'm also going to share some of the
frustrations and the challenges of being</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/639-1
00:04:00.146 --> 00:04:02.662
<v Madan, Jason>a health communist. Luckily,
as often as the rain life,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/639-2
00:04:02.662 --> 00:04:06.300
<v Madan, Jason>the things that make health joyful are
also the source of those frustrations and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/639-3
00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:08.501
<v Madan, Jason>challenges.
So I can cover both of those without</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/639-4
00:04:08.501 --> 00:04:10.568
<v Madan, Jason>running over time.
So don't worry about that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/690-0
00:04:16.168 --> 00:04:18.971
<v Madan, Jason>So the risk of sounding like a petulant
teenager,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/690-1
00:04:18.971 --> 00:04:23.343
<v Madan, Jason>I'm going to start with the frustration
that's being misunderstood sometimes,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/690-2
00:04:23.343 --> 00:04:27.323
<v Madan, Jason>and some of the people that you come
across almost seem to view health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/690-3
00:04:27.323 --> 00:04:30.575
<v Madan, Jason>economists as Oscar Wilde view cynics as
people who knew,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/690-4
00:04:30.575 --> 00:04:33.658
<v Madan, Jason>know the price of everything but the
value of nothing.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/690-5
00:04:33.658 --> 00:04:36.741
<v Madan, Jason>And I'm sure that isn't true of any of
you here today.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/690-6
00:04:36.741 --> 00:04:38.648
<v Madan, Jason>All the people I get to work with.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/700-0
00:04:39.568 --> 00:04:42.448
<v Madan, Jason>In the projects that I've had a chance to
work with over my career.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/771-0
00:04:43.308 --> 00:04:46.936
<v Madan, Jason>But every so often I'll stand up to
present my healthy confidence results as</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/771-1
00:04:46.936 --> 00:04:50.753
<v Madan, Jason>part of a project dissemination event.
And I've been introduced several times as</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/771-2
00:04:50.753 --> 00:04:53.439
<v Madan, Jason>the money man.
Now it's time to hear from the money man,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/771-3
00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:57.020
<v Madan, Jason>and I know it's kind of meant jokingly,
but I stand up and I go and I think</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/771-4
00:04:57.020 --> 00:05:00.648
<v Madan, Jason>something about some of my colleagues
from university days who did maths and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/771-5
00:05:00.648 --> 00:05:03.098
<v Madan, Jason>economics.
They've gone to places like the city and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/771-6
00:05:03.098 --> 00:05:06.350
<v Madan, Jason>they really are the money men and the
money women and I think, yeah,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/771-7
00:05:06.350 --> 00:05:08.188
<v Madan, Jason>I wish I had some of that but actually.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/797-0
00:05:08.968 --> 00:05:13.135
<v Madan, Jason>My my title is a bit of lie today because
I don't really wish I was a money man.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/797-1
00:05:13.135 --> 00:05:16.068
<v Madan, Jason>I think what I wish what I want to be,
what I hope I am,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/797-2
00:05:16.068 --> 00:05:20.288
<v Madan, Jason>and I think my colleagues speaking for
you today hope that you all are value men.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/836-0
00:05:20.868 --> 00:05:23.863
<v Madan, Jason>And value women.
And to illustrate what I mean by that,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/836-1
00:05:23.863 --> 00:05:28.303
<v Madan, Jason>I wanted to talk to you about a couple of
projects I could have talked about many.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/836-2
00:05:28.303 --> 00:05:31.619
<v Madan, Jason>The first one is sort of,
which is sort of illustrated by the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/836-3
00:05:31.619 --> 00:05:35.150
<v Madan, Jason>picture on the left here.
Is that a trial we'd recently completed</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/836-4
00:05:35.150 --> 00:05:38.948
<v Madan, Jason>here at the clinical trial unit called
Pippa. So Pippa was evaluating.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/867-0
00:05:40.488 --> 00:05:43.123
<v Madan, Jason>An online parenting support training
course,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/867-1
00:05:43.123 --> 00:05:47.751
<v Madan, Jason>several modules and we found in Pippa
that parents felt from doing this course</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/867-2
00:05:47.751 --> 00:05:52.437
<v Madan, Jason>that they felt more confident as parents.
They felt they showed they would show</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/867-3
00:05:52.437 --> 00:05:56.128
<v Madan, Jason>that they were kind of up skilled.
If you give that ugly word.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/929-0
00:05:56.868 --> 00:06:01.143
<v Madan, Jason>And and it was really rewarding to see
that we were benefiting parents in that</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/929-1
00:06:01.143 --> 00:06:03.525
<v Madan, Jason>way and helping them to look at,
to manage,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/929-2
00:06:03.525 --> 00:06:07.963
<v Madan, Jason>to help their children manage that very
tricky period in life between the ages of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/929-3
00:06:07.963 --> 00:06:10.885
<v Madan, Jason>11 and 15.
So a wonderful project have been involved.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/929-4
00:06:10.885 --> 00:06:15.215
<v Madan, Jason>So the second project I want to kind of
get talk about to get us thinking about</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/929-5
00:06:15.215 --> 00:06:18.733
<v Madan, Jason>this is that kind of illustrated by these
pictures on the right.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/929-6
00:06:18.733 --> 00:06:20.628
<v Madan, Jason>And the picture there, you can see.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/948-0
00:06:21.768 --> 00:06:24.921
<v Madan, Jason>It's like a beauty parlour.
There's a barbers, a nice canteen,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/948-1
00:06:24.921 --> 00:06:28.126
<v Madan, Jason>some good food there,
and it might not be obvious to all of you</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/948-2
00:06:28.126 --> 00:06:29.728
<v Madan, Jason>where those pictures were taken.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1013-0
00:06:30.808 --> 00:06:36.012
<v Madan, Jason>They're actually taken in what I believe
is South Asia's largest inpatient mental</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1013-1
00:06:36.012 --> 00:06:39.502
<v Madan, Jason>health hospital,
which is in Nagpur in India and I was</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1013-2
00:06:39.502 --> 00:06:42.421
<v Madan, Jason>there.
The reason I was there as part of this</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1013-3
00:06:42.421 --> 00:06:47.181
<v Madan, Jason>group was because I was supporting
supervising APHD student called Tasneem</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1013-4
00:06:47.181 --> 00:06:50.735
<v Madan, Jason>Raja. And OK aside here,
having put this talk together,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1013-5
00:06:50.735 --> 00:06:55.939
<v Madan, Jason>I realised that most of what I'm going to
talk about today is not stuff I've done</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1013-6
00:06:55.939 --> 00:06:59.556
<v Madan, Jason>myself directly,
but stuff that PhD students I work with</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1013-7
00:06:59.556 --> 00:07:00.128
<v Madan, Jason>has done.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1070-0
00:07:01.148 --> 00:07:05.800
<v Madan, Jason>And I don't think that's an accident.
I think the and I was thinking about the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1070-1
00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:10.335
<v Madan, Jason>the thing my career probably found most
rewarding is supporting students and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1070-2
00:07:10.335 --> 00:07:15.164
<v Madan, Jason>supervisors both myself as a supervisor,
but also the time I spent as head of our</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1070-3
00:07:15.164 --> 00:07:19.994
<v Madan, Jason>PGR programme here at the medical school
and through that experience I've learned</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1070-4
00:07:19.994 --> 00:07:24.588
<v Madan, Jason>as I think many of you will know that our
PhD students, our PGR students are.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1089-0
00:07:25.808 --> 00:07:29.546
<v Madan, Jason>And you can kind of pick your metaphor
here. They are the the engine room.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1089-1
00:07:29.546 --> 00:07:32.488
<v Madan, Jason>They are the foundation.
They are the greenhouse in which.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1103-0
00:07:33.868 --> 00:07:37.111
<v Madan, Jason>So much of our innovative research
flourishes,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1103-1
00:07:37.111 --> 00:07:40.148
<v Madan, Jason>develops and and and and becomes
impactful.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1138-0
00:07:41.688 --> 00:07:46.387
<v Madan, Jason>So and this example just to sneeze work,
Tasneem was running a project called Uran,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1138-1
00:07:46.387 --> 00:07:49.408
<v Madan, Jason>which I believe correct me Mum and Dad.
If I'm wrong,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1138-2
00:07:49.408 --> 00:07:53.548
<v Madan, Jason>I believe it means flight in Hindi and
the aim of Iran was to improve the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1138-3
00:07:53.548 --> 00:07:57.576
<v Madan, Jason>dignity and well-being of people living
what can be quite a challenging</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1138-4
00:07:57.576 --> 00:07:58.248
<v Madan, Jason>environment.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1148-0
00:07:59.928 --> 00:08:04.589
<v Madan, Jason>A mental hospital in a place like India.
So with both these projects and many</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1148-1
00:08:04.589 --> 00:08:05.008
<v Madan, Jason>others.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1187-0
00:08:06.988 --> 00:08:10.266
<v Madan, Jason>They're clear, very,
very valuable and impactful things.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1187-1
00:08:10.266 --> 00:08:14.004
<v Madan, Jason>Things that we as academics want to
support and get involved in.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1187-2
00:08:14.004 --> 00:08:18.087
<v Madan, Jason>Some of you may wonder what?
Why do you need a health economist to get</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1187-3
00:08:18.087 --> 00:08:21.537
<v Madan, Jason>involved in these sort of things and
others more knowledge,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1187-4
00:08:21.537 --> 00:08:23.148
<v Madan, Jason>more knowledgeably will say.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1229-0
00:08:24.688 --> 00:08:27.074
<v Madan, Jason>Well,
you have to show things that these are</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1229-1
00:08:27.074 --> 00:08:29.619
<v Madan, Jason>cost effective,
don't you as well as effective.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1229-2
00:08:29.619 --> 00:08:33.596
<v Madan, Jason>And I'll come back to this idea of cost
effectiveness later on in my talk.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1229-3
00:08:33.596 --> 00:08:37.839
<v Madan, Jason>But the point I want to make just now at
the start of this talk is if you think</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1229-4
00:08:37.839 --> 00:08:40.596
<v Madan, Jason>about it,
we can certainly work out what investment</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1229-5
00:08:40.596 --> 00:08:43.248
<v Madan, Jason>is required to do these things and that's
useful.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1279-0
00:08:44.128 --> 00:08:48.228
<v Madan, Jason>But the real challenge if you're taking
your work when you're working in these</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1279-1
00:08:48.228 --> 00:08:51.187
<v Madan, Jason>constrained environment resource
challenge environments,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1279-2
00:08:51.187 --> 00:08:53.783
<v Madan, Jason>is trying to advocate for independence
like this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1279-3
00:08:53.783 --> 00:08:57.572
<v Madan, Jason>Compared to all the other pressures that
policymakers and services have.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1279-4
00:08:57.572 --> 00:09:00.168
<v Madan, Jason>And that boils down to trying to measure
capture.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1310-0
00:09:01.808 --> 00:09:05.098
<v Madan, Jason>Compare something very intangible,
which is the value of that you create in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1310-1
00:09:05.098 --> 00:09:08.388
<v Madan, Jason>people's lives are doing these things,
and I think that is in fact the most</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1310-2
00:09:08.388 --> 00:09:10.337
<v Madan, Jason>interesting part of health economics for
me.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1310-3
00:09:10.337 --> 00:09:13.368
<v Madan, Jason>And I think probably for many of my
colleagues. And that's why I say.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1323-0
00:09:14.388 --> 00:09:18.385
<v Madan, Jason>I want to be and I think we all want to
be value men and women. Maybe not money,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1323-1
00:09:18.385 --> 00:09:19.668
<v Madan, Jason>men and women, to be fair.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1374-0
00:09:24.958 --> 00:09:29.598
<v Madan, Jason>When did you talk about this? See,
it gives you a chance to maybe look back</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1374-1
00:09:29.598 --> 00:09:32.345
<v Madan, Jason>and and how did you get where you are
today?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1374-2
00:09:32.345 --> 00:09:35.947
<v Madan, Jason>How did you go from being this very fresh
faced young lad?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1374-3
00:09:35.947 --> 00:09:40.404
<v Madan, Jason>And if you can spot me there.
So at the back to this much older, grayer,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1374-4
00:09:40.404 --> 00:09:44.983
<v Madan, Jason>more wrinkled, very happy health.
Member of Chew on the right and I'd love</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1374-5
00:09:44.983 --> 00:09:49.318
<v Madan, Jason>to say it was a very straight and smooth
path. But As for many people.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1387-0
00:09:50.128 --> 00:09:52.920
<v Madan, Jason>I didn't dream of becoming a health
economist when I was at school,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1387-1
00:09:52.920 --> 00:09:54.728
<v Madan, Jason>I didn't even know what one was,
of course.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1396-0
00:09:55.558 --> 00:09:58.038
<v Madan, Jason>So it was a bit more of a meandering path
that I took.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1403-0
00:09:59.568 --> 00:10:01.448
<v Madan, Jason>With lots of sliding doors moments along
the way.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1421-0
00:10:03.288 --> 00:10:06.837
<v Madan, Jason>I could have ended up as all sorts of
things I could have ended up as a money</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1421-1
00:10:06.837 --> 00:10:09.339
<v Madan, Jason>man potentially.
I'm quite happy with how I how I end,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1421-2
00:10:09.339 --> 00:10:10.568
<v Madan, Jason>where I ended up though so.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1440-0
00:10:12.328 --> 00:10:15.749
<v Madan, Jason>Even if I didn't take as my family will
will know with some frustration,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1440-1
00:10:15.749 --> 00:10:18.328
<v Madan, Jason>I didn't take the sensible,
direct route to get there.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1500-0
00:10:24.868 --> 00:10:29.414
<v Madan, Jason>One thing when I was thinking back on
this one thing that I realised was I do</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1500-1
00:10:29.414 --> 00:10:33.902
<v Madan, Jason>love a university and in fact I've spent
my pretty much my entire adult life</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1500-2
00:10:33.902 --> 00:10:38.041
<v Madan, Jason>either studying or working in and for
universities I've been involved,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1500-3
00:10:38.041 --> 00:10:42.063
<v Madan, Jason>I've been linked works of,
housed by or found a home in seven across</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1500-4
00:10:42.063 --> 00:10:46.551
<v Madan, Jason>the UK and you feel free to tune out.
While I'm awfully on on this slide and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1500-5
00:10:46.551 --> 00:10:48.708
<v Madan, Jason>try and work out which ones they are.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1513-0
00:10:49.488 --> 00:10:51.472
<v Madan, Jason>I think the middle one,
you'll get straight away, but mostly,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1513-1
00:10:51.472 --> 00:10:52.688
<v Madan, Jason>but if you can perk up the others too.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1525-0
00:10:54.528 --> 00:10:57.325
<v Madan, Jason>And that's, I mean,
particularly in this time when in many</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1525-1
00:10:57.325 --> 00:11:00.408
<v Madan, Jason>ways universities are under a lot of
pressure, a lot of attacks.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1564-0
00:11:01.258 --> 00:11:03.940
<v Madan, Jason>I really feel this is something that we
need to defend,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1564-1
00:11:03.940 --> 00:11:07.677
<v Madan, Jason>that they they produce huge amounts of
value both for the people who studying</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1564-2
00:11:07.677 --> 00:11:10.696
<v Madan, Jason>them and work in them,
but also for the communities they serve</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1564-3
00:11:10.696 --> 00:11:13.378
<v Madan, Jason>and support,
which can be the global community as well.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1564-4
00:11:13.378 --> 00:11:13.858
<v Madan, Jason>We'll see.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1600-0
00:11:14.818 --> 00:11:19.232
<v Madan, Jason>Having you said that I would just mention
before I don't talk about it anymore.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1600-1
00:11:19.232 --> 00:11:23.646
<v Madan, Jason>I did spend a bit of time in what you
might call the real world for a few years</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1600-2
00:11:23.646 --> 00:11:28.170
<v Madan, Jason>around Millennium back back in those days.
And I did two very different things in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1600-3
00:11:28.170 --> 00:11:30.378
<v Madan, Jason>that time as as my family will remember.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1635-0
00:11:31.938 --> 00:11:35.763
<v Madan, Jason>Part of that was I I trained and worked
as a teacher of English as a foreign</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1635-1
00:11:35.763 --> 00:11:39.339
<v Madan, Jason>language and saw some wonderful places
like this picture is timishwara.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1635-2
00:11:39.339 --> 00:11:42.419
<v Madan, Jason>If you've ever been in Romania,
if you haven't, getting some.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1635-3
00:11:42.419 --> 00:11:44.903
<v Madan, Jason>Some people have,
it's definitely worth visiting.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1635-4
00:11:44.903 --> 00:11:45.698
<v Madan, Jason>Wonderful place.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1656-0
00:11:47.108 --> 00:11:51.301
<v Madan, Jason>The other so then I did that for a while
and then completely did a 180 and decided</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1656-1
00:11:51.301 --> 00:11:53.828
<v Madan, Jason>panic decided to train as a chartered
accountant.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1663-0
00:11:56.498 --> 00:11:58.498
<v Madan, Jason>So then I was the money manager,
a while in a way.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1687-0
00:12:00.258 --> 00:12:03.095
<v Madan, Jason>But I managed, you know,
I that didn't last.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1687-1
00:12:03.095 --> 00:12:07.760
<v Madan, Jason>I knew I was in the wrong place.
I moved back into the world universities</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1687-2
00:12:07.760 --> 00:12:09.778
<v Madan, Jason>and that's where I am today and.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1711-0
00:12:11.458 --> 00:12:14.815
<v Madan, Jason>I guess you know you could say that.
Think about this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1711-1
00:12:14.815 --> 00:12:19.089
<v Madan, Jason>I did realise quite early on,
particularly the counter training quite</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1711-2
00:12:19.089 --> 00:12:20.738
<v Madan, Jason>early on. It wasn't for me.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-0
00:12:22.188 --> 00:12:25.217
<v Madan, Jason>I did stick it out.
I qualified as a chartered accountant.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-1
00:12:25.217 --> 00:12:28.247
<v Madan, Jason>I don't like admitting that.
But I'll I'll admit it today.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-2
00:12:28.247 --> 00:12:31.431
<v Madan, Jason>So I was a qualified chartered accountant
and I stuck it out.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-3
00:12:31.431 --> 00:12:35.077
<v Madan, Jason>Even though after a few weeks I realised
it was the wrong thing to do.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-4
00:12:35.077 --> 00:12:38.775
<v Madan, Jason>So what lesson should we take from this?
We could take the lesson away.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-5
00:12:38.775 --> 00:12:42.421
<v Madan, Jason>That don't be afraid to quit.
But I don't feel like that's the lesson.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-6
00:12:42.421 --> 00:12:44.938
<v Madan, Jason>Really.
I should be standing up here and giving.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-7
00:12:44.938 --> 00:12:48.738
<v Madan, Jason>So I'll try a different lesson.
Which is even when you take a false path,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1784-8
00:12:48.738 --> 00:12:49.868
<v Madan, Jason>it's never a disaster.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1798-0
00:12:50.658 --> 00:12:54.466
<v Madan, Jason>You'll still find some scenic things to
enjoy along the way. So for example,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1798-1
00:12:54.466 --> 00:12:57.138
<v Madan, Jason>teaching us the foreign language actually
was really.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1824-0
00:12:58.508 --> 00:13:01.400
<v Madan, Jason>A real sort of insight.
It was really helpful to have that</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1824-1
00:13:01.400 --> 00:13:04.292
<v Madan, Jason>experience of taking something that you
do very naturally,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1824-2
00:13:04.292 --> 00:13:08.164
<v Madan, Jason>like speak your mother tongue and try and
teach it and communicate it to to to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1824-3
00:13:08.164 --> 00:13:08.508
<v Madan, Jason>others.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1864-0
00:13:10.058 --> 00:13:14.120
<v Madan, Jason>And I've benefited from that experience,
undoubtedly, and Even so my time in,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1864-1
00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:16.932
<v Madan, Jason>in the firm Anderson.
So I work with Arthur Anderson.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1864-2
00:13:16.932 --> 00:13:20.369
<v Madan, Jason>If you haven't heard of that,
it was one of the biggest financial</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1864-3
00:13:20.369 --> 00:13:23.077
<v Madan, Jason>companies in the world.
If you haven't heard of it,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1864-4
00:13:23.077 --> 00:13:26.670
<v Madan, Jason>it's because they blew up because of
something called Enron scandal.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1864-5
00:13:26.670 --> 00:13:28.858
<v Madan, Jason>Nothing to do with me, I promise. Firstly.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1920-0
00:13:30.098 --> 00:13:33.954
<v Madan, Jason>The statement I'm paper shredders,
unlike many of the former employees,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1920-1
00:13:33.954 --> 00:13:37.490
<v Madan, Jason>but my job title then was assurance risk
consultant and you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1920-2
00:13:37.490 --> 00:13:41.507
<v Madan, Jason>you might think what you know what a
waste of no wonder you wanted to come</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1920-3
00:13:41.507 --> 00:13:44.775
<v Madan, Jason>back to universities.
That's a little bit more like a proper</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1920-4
00:13:44.775 --> 00:13:47.989
<v Madan, Jason>job, a little bit more.
But actually what I learned in that</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1920-5
00:13:47.989 --> 00:13:52.060
<v Madan, Jason>experience was we we were trained to
think about things like business risk.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1920-6
00:13:52.060 --> 00:13:54.578
<v Madan, Jason>So to understand processes in an
organisation.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1952-0
00:13:55.378 --> 00:13:58.501
<v Madan, Jason>How they systematically or systemically
might go wrong,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1952-1
00:13:58.501 --> 00:14:01.346
<v Madan, Jason>and what you might do to to mitigate
those things,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1952-2
00:14:01.346 --> 00:14:04.916
<v Madan, Jason>or you know to pick them up early.
And when you think about it,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1952-3
00:14:04.916 --> 00:14:08.988
<v Madan, Jason>that's actually a really good experience
for working in clinical trials,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1952-4
00:14:08.988 --> 00:14:09.658
<v Madan, Jason>isn't it so?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1981-0
00:14:10.718 --> 00:14:14.336
<v Madan, Jason>So let's take the lesson from that
experience of is don't worry if you take</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1981-1
00:14:14.336 --> 00:14:16.573
<v Madan, Jason>a wrong turn now and again,
it won't hurt you.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1981-2
00:14:16.573 --> 00:14:19.478
<v Madan, Jason>You'll still pick up things you didn't
expect along the way.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/1982-0
00:14:26.858 --> 00:14:27.018
<v Madan, Jason>None.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-0
00:14:31.358 --> 00:14:33.634
<v Madan, Jason>So.
So my kind of routine to health economics</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-1
00:14:33.634 --> 00:14:37.198
<v Madan, Jason>was I started off as a mathematician.
That's why I started off doing at</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-2
00:14:37.198 --> 00:14:40.514
<v Madan, Jason>university. I realised that was too hard.
I switched to economics,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-3
00:14:40.514 --> 00:14:43.879
<v Madan, Jason>which I very much enjoyed.
I stumbled across the concept of equally</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-4
00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:47.690
<v Madan, Jason>and was intrigued and ended up in health
economics by doing masters in York.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-5
00:14:47.690 --> 00:14:50.808
<v Madan, Jason>Like several of you here,
that's kind of your we just want the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-6
00:14:50.808 --> 00:14:54.421
<v Madan, Jason>pictures just to give answers out.
Now many of us go down that route and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-7
00:14:54.421 --> 00:14:58.480
<v Madan, Jason>York is kind of a mothership, isn't it?
For many of us who are health economists,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2050-8
00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:58.678
<v Madan, Jason>but.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2083-0
00:14:59.578 --> 00:15:01.620
<v Madan, Jason>There are many routes into the field,
actually,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2083-1
00:15:01.620 --> 00:15:03.620
<v Madan, Jason>and we've worked with many of us,
James Mason,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2083-2
00:15:03.620 --> 00:15:05.961
<v Madan, Jason>who was recently offered this parish,
was an engineer.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2083-3
00:15:05.961 --> 00:15:08.343
<v Madan, Jason>I think every nautical engineer or
something like that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2083-4
00:15:08.343 --> 00:15:09.578
<v Madan, Jason>He was some kind of engineer.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2089-0
00:15:10.518 --> 00:15:12.518
<v Madan, Jason>I think it was. It was an engineer anyway.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2098-0
00:15:14.058 --> 00:15:17.178
<v Madan, Jason>We work with clinicians, dentists,
pharmacists.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2111-0
00:15:18.858 --> 00:15:21.178
<v Madan, Jason>Statisticians,
people come from all sorts of backgrounds,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2111-1
00:15:21.178 --> 00:15:22.938
<v Madan, Jason>not just economics,
to do health economics.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2150-0
00:15:24.658 --> 00:15:28.068
<v Madan, Jason>And it's kind of like,
I think it's also like kind of the French</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2150-1
00:15:28.068 --> 00:15:31.216
<v Madan, Jason>Foreign Legion of disciplines where we
welcome people from.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2150-2
00:15:31.216 --> 00:15:34.206
<v Madan, Jason>We don't ask too much about your
backgrounds to come in,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2150-3
00:15:34.206 --> 00:15:37.984
<v Madan, Jason>find a new home with us as long as you
devote yourself to the fight for</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2150-4
00:15:37.984 --> 00:15:39.978
<v Madan, Jason>allocative efficiency, you're welcome.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2163-0
00:15:41.328 --> 00:15:45.691
<v Madan, Jason>And I think partly that reflects the fact
that we're very pragmatic and problem</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2163-1
00:15:45.691 --> 00:15:46.128
<v Madan, Jason>focused.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2222-0
00:15:48.538 --> 00:15:52.990
<v Madan, Jason>And we we drawn lots of disciplines.
I mean obviously economics is the obvious</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2222-1
00:15:52.990 --> 00:15:56.653
<v Madan, Jason>one and we draw across many fields of
economics. And what we do.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2222-2
00:15:56.653 --> 00:16:00.993
<v Madan, Jason>But actually you know the we draw maths
on stats on operational research and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2222-3
00:16:00.993 --> 00:16:03.585
<v Madan, Jason>modelling,
we've drawn drawn lots of clinical</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2222-4
00:16:03.585 --> 00:16:07.925
<v Madan, Jason>specialities, you know psychology,
lots of qualitative methodologies as many</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2222-5
00:16:07.925 --> 00:16:11.138
<v Madan, Jason>will know actually some people may be
surprised to hear.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-0
00:16:11.678 --> 00:16:15.046
<v Madan, Jason>A part of of healthy comics too,
so I think that's one of the things joys</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-1
00:16:15.046 --> 00:16:17.276
<v Madan, Jason>of what?
Why it's such a rewarding careers is if</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-2
00:16:17.276 --> 00:16:20.325
<v Madan, Jason>you like that sort of thing.
And I've just thought the person who,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-3
00:16:20.325 --> 00:16:22.920
<v Madan, Jason>when I was at Uni,
couldn't go and revise in the library</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-4
00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:26.606
<v Madan, Jason>because I'd be reading everyone else's
books rather than my own because I'm just</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-5
00:16:26.606 --> 00:16:29.656
<v Madan, Jason>obviously more interesting.
So you have that kind of mindset and I</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-6
00:16:29.656 --> 00:16:33.479
<v Madan, Jason>think a lot of us in health economics do.
That's why it's a very rewarding place to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-7
00:16:33.479 --> 00:16:37.257
<v Madan, Jason>be because you can satisfy that curiosity
and that breadth of interests that a lot</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2305-8
00:16:37.257 --> 00:16:37.758
<v Madan, Jason>of us have.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2361-0
00:16:44.928 --> 00:16:49.380
<v Madan, Jason>So another aspect as as Gavin mentioned,
was the fact that as health commissions</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2361-1
00:16:49.380 --> 00:16:53.722
<v Madan, Jason>had a chance to see the world again,
a bit like the French Foreign Legion I've</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2361-2
00:16:53.722 --> 00:16:56.250
<v Madan, Jason>got,
I've had the chance to see the world and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2361-3
00:16:56.250 --> 00:16:59.713
<v Madan, Jason>I was actually through joining Quarry
before I joined 糖心TV.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2361-4
00:16:59.713 --> 00:17:03.396
<v Madan, Jason>I'm very much focused on on UK health
economics and methods stuff,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2361-5
00:17:03.396 --> 00:17:07.024
<v Madan, Jason>but since joining work,
I had a chance to to visit many wonderful</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2361-6
00:17:07.024 --> 00:17:08.728
<v Madan, Jason>places. This is just a handful.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2377-0
00:17:09.538 --> 00:17:13.295
<v Madan, Jason>I've got many, many photos like this.
I could have used here and all these</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2377-1
00:17:13.295 --> 00:17:14.898
<v Madan, Jason>photos were taken on work trips.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2384-0
00:17:16.698 --> 00:17:19.298
<v Madan, Jason>I won't try and pretend that all of them
are directly work related.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2451-0
00:17:21.408 --> 00:17:25.033
<v Madan, Jason>And there are definitely joys in just be
able to travel. I mean,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2451-1
00:17:25.033 --> 00:17:29.272
<v Madan, Jason>their joys in hanging out with beach in
Brazil and I can't recommend highly</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2451-2
00:17:29.272 --> 00:17:33.790
<v Madan, Jason>enough if you ever get the opportunity to
go wine tasting with Martin Underwood.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2451-3
00:17:33.790 --> 00:17:38.085
<v Madan, Jason>Take it. It's a wonderful thing to do.
That's Stellenbosch in the top right.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2451-4
00:17:38.085 --> 00:17:41.264
<v Madan, Jason>But it wasn't all like that before you
get to, you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2451-5
00:17:41.264 --> 00:17:45.448
<v Madan, Jason>sort of two sort of frustrated with me.
And I think I'm complete skydiver.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2463-0
00:17:46.698 --> 00:17:48.586
<v Madan, Jason>It was.
It was actually really incredibly useful</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2463-1
00:17:48.586 --> 00:17:49.858
<v Madan, Jason>to my work to be able to do that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2469-0
00:17:51.658 --> 00:17:53.658
<v Madan, Jason>And think about one of the first
experiences I had.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2479-0
00:17:55.688 --> 00:18:00.088
<v Madan, Jason>Back me up. Probably 2013. I got to visit.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2497-0
00:18:01.778 --> 00:18:05.642
<v Madan, Jason>A large TB tuberculosis hospital in
Blataire in Malawi,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2497-1
00:18:05.642 --> 00:18:08.058
<v Madan, Jason>which was a huge eye opener for me.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2532-0
00:18:10.418 --> 00:18:13.559
<v Madan, Jason>So many differences and a lot of
challenges, as you can imagine.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2532-1
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:17.232
<v Madan, Jason>And one of the things I remember going
around the tour and around the back,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2532-2
00:18:17.232 --> 00:18:19.648
<v Madan, Jason>I looked out the window and there were
all these,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2532-3
00:18:19.648 --> 00:18:21.871
<v Madan, Jason>some tents up and there's like washing
lines,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2532-4
00:18:21.871 --> 00:18:25.399
<v Madan, Jason>it kind of reminded me of almost there
when we did our Duke of Edinburgh</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2532-5
00:18:25.399 --> 00:18:26.898
<v Madan, Jason>expeditions as a as a teenager.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2557-0
00:18:27.668 --> 00:18:30.810
<v Madan, Jason>All set up there, very sort of ramshackle,
and I sort of asked the person who's</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2557-1
00:18:30.810 --> 00:18:33.874
<v Madan, Jason>taking me around what's going on there,
what's that doing in the back of your</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2557-2
00:18:33.874 --> 00:18:34.228
<v Madan, Jason>hospital?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2613-0
00:18:35.818 --> 00:18:40.194
<v Madan, Jason>And maybe I should have worked it out
what that was and what they told me it</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2613-1
00:18:40.194 --> 00:18:44.798
<v Madan, Jason>was, is. That's where the Guardian stayed.
So the point is that as I had no idea</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2613-2
00:18:44.798 --> 00:18:47.526
<v Madan, Jason>until you know,
you really get on the ground to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2613-3
00:18:47.526 --> 00:18:50.709
<v Madan, Jason>understand this,
they really have a massive shortage of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2613-4
00:18:50.709 --> 00:18:55.256
<v Madan, Jason>funding and nursing staff available.
So a lot of the in the basic nursing care,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2613-5
00:18:55.256 --> 00:18:58.098
<v Madan, Jason>the people need their families to do it
so often.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2625-0
00:18:58.598 --> 00:19:01.739
<v Madan, Jason>Bring someone with you when you have to
stay in between length of time.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2625-1
00:19:01.739 --> 00:19:02.918
<v Madan, Jason>TB treatment can be months.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2685-0
00:19:04.458 --> 00:19:08.222
<v Madan, Jason>As many of you will know,
so you have a guardian with you who does</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2685-1
00:19:08.222 --> 00:19:11.705
<v Madan, Jason>lots of sorts out your meals and lots of
basic nursing stuff.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2685-2
00:19:11.705 --> 00:19:15.076
<v Madan, Jason>I wish I would never have understood or
realised, you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2685-3
00:19:15.076 --> 00:19:19.178
<v Madan, Jason>unless I've seen it for myself.
And actually a lot of the work I've gone</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2685-4
00:19:19.178 --> 00:19:23.785
<v Madan, Jason>on to do in global health economics has
been trying to understand and measure the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2685-5
00:19:23.785 --> 00:19:27.830
<v Madan, Jason>impact that being ill and seeking care
has on on, on household poverty,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2685-6
00:19:27.830 --> 00:19:31.258
<v Madan, Jason>creating or or further driving people
into creating poverty.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2694-0
00:19:32.138 --> 00:19:34.938
<v Madan, Jason>Or further driving people into it.
That's been a big part of what I do.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2756-0
00:19:35.718 --> 00:19:39.859
<v Madan, Jason>And even in this age now with of teams
and and we're all we're all working</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2756-1
00:19:39.859 --> 00:19:43.449
<v Madan, Jason>offline, a lot of the time,
it's still there's no substitute for</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2756-2
00:19:43.449 --> 00:19:47.812
<v Madan, Jason>getting on the ground and seeing how
Healthcare is delivered in facilities and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2756-3
00:19:47.812 --> 00:19:51.788
<v Madan, Jason>communities across the world.
It really does bring a lot of insight and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2756-4
00:19:51.788 --> 00:19:54.881
<v Madan, Jason>direction to your research.
So the wine tasting is fun,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2756-5
00:19:54.881 --> 00:19:59.465
<v Madan, Jason>but actually the experience will be able
to see how Healthcare is delivered and to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2756-6
00:19:59.465 --> 00:20:02.558
<v Madan, Jason>understand that impact in communities
across the world.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2766-0
00:20:03.298 --> 00:20:06.161
<v Madan, Jason>Is a wonderful privilege and one of the
things I've really loved about this this</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2766-1
00:20:06.161 --> 00:20:06.338
<v Madan, Jason>role.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2768-0
00:20:10.968 --> 00:20:11.368
<v Madan, Jason>So.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2841-0
00:20:13.098 --> 00:20:15.417
<v Madan, Jason>I was talking to about things that are
the joys,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2841-1
00:20:15.417 --> 00:20:18.826
<v Madan, Jason>and they're also the frustrations,
and I could have said that about the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2841-2
00:20:18.826 --> 00:20:22.709
<v Madan, Jason>global travel and how frustrating it is
to have to live out of the suitcase every</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2841-3
00:20:22.709 --> 00:20:24.981
<v Madan, Jason>often,
but I could see you all pulling out your</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2841-4
00:20:24.981 --> 00:20:28.721
<v Madan, Jason>world's smallest violins if I tried that.
So I won't claim that's frustration.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2841-5
00:20:28.721 --> 00:20:32.272
<v Madan, Jason>But one of the things that's a huge joy
and also can be quite a challenge.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2841-6
00:20:32.272 --> 00:20:36.249
<v Madan, Jason>It goes back to this idea of how we work.
So we we we're quite interdisciplinary in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2841-7
00:20:36.249 --> 00:20:36.818
<v Madan, Jason>how we work.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2895-0
00:20:37.598 --> 00:20:42.052
<v Madan, Jason>And it's not a subject to working.
If you like being in your own bubble in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2895-1
00:20:42.052 --> 00:20:46.506
<v Madan, Jason>your own space with like minded folk,
because inevitably in trials, in in,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2895-2
00:20:46.506 --> 00:20:49.891
<v Madan, Jason>in Policy Studies,
you work with large multidisciplinary</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2895-3
00:20:49.891 --> 00:20:54.582
<v Madan, Jason>teams. You work with clinical experts,
you work with methodologists, astitons,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2895-4
00:20:54.582 --> 00:20:58.918
<v Madan, Jason>sociologists, anthropologists,
decision makers, health, health managers.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2898-0
00:21:00.738 --> 00:21:01.618
<v Madan, Jason>Members of the public.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2916-0
00:21:03.298 --> 00:21:04.988
<v Madan, Jason>Which is a joy. Definitely.
I think for me,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2916-1
00:21:04.988 --> 00:21:08.178
<v Madan, Jason>I've really enjoyed having that kind of
diversity of views and learning from that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2924-0
00:21:09.808 --> 00:21:12.768
<v Madan, Jason>But it can also be a challenge and a
frustration and.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2991-0
00:21:14.778 --> 00:21:17.531
<v Madan, Jason>It does,
and it's something that I've thought</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2991-1
00:21:17.531 --> 00:21:21.781
<v Madan, Jason>about more and more working through
projects and I get to use a bit of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2991-2
00:21:21.781 --> 00:21:26.450
<v Madan, Jason>foreign language now, which I love.
So economics is almost as bad as medicine</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2991-3
00:21:26.450 --> 00:21:30.222
<v Madan, Jason>when it comes to loving Latin,
to confuse and distract people.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2991-4
00:21:30.222 --> 00:21:32.855
<v Madan, Jason>So in economics,
when I've moved from math,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2991-5
00:21:32.855 --> 00:21:37.106
<v Madan, Jason>I learned terms which I love, like,
mutatis mutandis, cetiris paribus.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/2991-6
00:21:37.106 --> 00:21:40.578
<v Madan, Jason>And my personal favourite, degustibus,
non S disputandum.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3047-0
00:21:40.968 --> 00:21:43.810
<v Madan, Jason>Of that phrase,
I won't translate them for you now I'm</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3047-1
00:21:43.810 --> 00:21:47.273
<v Madan, Jason>afraid if you've done laughing,
you'll know what they are. If not,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3047-2
00:21:47.273 --> 00:21:50.839
<v Madan, Jason>I'm going to preserve that mystique for a
few minutes. But actually,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3047-3
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.734
<v Madan, Jason>I'm going to use a French term.
Even better. Therefore,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3047-4
00:21:53.734 --> 00:21:56.525
<v Madan, Jason>Massell professor now.
And as you can probably guess,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3047-5
00:21:56.525 --> 00:21:59.160
<v Madan, Jason>because French is not that hidden
language for us,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3047-6
00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:03.088
<v Madan, Jason>it kind of refers to the way in which
your professional training shapes and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3047-7
00:22:03.088 --> 00:22:05.208
<v Madan, Jason>often distorts the way you see the world.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3073-0
00:22:06.018 --> 00:22:10.092
<v Madan, Jason>And I think this concept originally sort
of came across in quite a physical way.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3073-1
00:22:10.092 --> 00:22:13.412
<v Madan, Jason>So you can imagine how your job might
lead to calluses or Stoops,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3073-2
00:22:13.412 --> 00:22:15.978
<v Madan, Jason>but that actually became a way to think
about how.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3104-0
00:22:16.898 --> 00:22:21.338
<v Madan, Jason>The way you're trained, the way you work,
the way the way that you kind of kind of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3104-1
00:22:21.338 --> 00:22:24.280
<v Madan, Jason>work things,
you do shape a lot of in a lot of sort of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3104-2
00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:27.382
<v Madan, Jason>unchallenged and unconscious ways,
how you see the world.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3104-3
00:22:27.382 --> 00:22:30.218
<v Madan, Jason>And then when you bring bring these
things together.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3116-0
00:22:32.738 --> 00:22:35.606
<v Madan, Jason>You find there's this mutual
incomprehension because we don't have the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3116-1
00:22:35.606 --> 00:22:36.778
<v Madan, Jason>shared understanding anymore.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3152-0
00:22:38.458 --> 00:22:41.708
<v Madan, Jason>So one way that manifests itself is
definitely through language.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3152-1
00:22:41.708 --> 00:22:43.908
<v Madan, Jason>So there are lots of examples of this
when,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3152-2
00:22:43.908 --> 00:22:47.958
<v Madan, Jason>as you'll know from your work where we'll
use words and not realise that they're</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3152-3
00:22:47.958 --> 00:22:51.508
<v Madan, Jason>either being misunderstood or or creating
completely wrong impression.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3152-4
00:22:51.508 --> 00:22:52.258
<v Madan, Jason>And I remember.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-0
00:22:53.138 --> 00:22:56.443
<v Madan, Jason>You're meeting a few months ago where
STAP stations start talking about matrix</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-1
00:22:56.443 --> 00:22:58.954
<v Madan, Jason>decomposition and the commissions were
like, no, you can't.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-2
00:22:58.954 --> 00:23:00.795
<v Madan, Jason>You can't say that you can't
decomposition.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-3
00:23:00.795 --> 00:23:03.473
<v Madan, Jason>You can't talk about decomposition.
It's not healthy, you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-4
00:23:03.473 --> 00:23:06.778
<v Madan, Jason>and force that decision hasn't, you know,
it was just a very technical term in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-5
00:23:06.778 --> 00:23:08.745
<v Madan, Jason>mathematics,
hadn't really thought about that,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-6
00:23:08.745 --> 00:23:11.967
<v Madan, Jason>but has a very different meaning to a non
statistician. But I think, I mean,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-7
00:23:11.967 --> 00:23:15.398
<v Madan, Jason>there are many examples of that and I'm
sure a lot of you can come up with those.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3213-8
00:23:15.398 --> 00:23:17.658
<v Madan, Jason>But the word actually,
I was thinking about for this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3217-0
00:23:18.458 --> 00:23:19.778
<v Madan, Jason>Was an assumption.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3223-0
00:23:21.678 --> 00:23:23.518
<v Madan, Jason>And what I kind of realised was.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3285-0
00:23:25.578 --> 00:23:29.200
<v Madan, Jason>For a lot of people I work with an
assumption. Something you have. If you,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3285-1
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:31.518
<v Madan, Jason>if you really have to.
If you haven't got data,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3285-2
00:23:31.518 --> 00:23:35.382
<v Madan, Jason>you must get data as soon as possible,
and it's kind of the thing you say what?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3285-3
00:23:35.382 --> 00:23:37.604
<v Madan, Jason>You know, what you do when you assume,
right?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3285-4
00:23:37.604 --> 00:23:40.405
<v Madan, Jason>That's the kind of I think that's the
kind of assumption.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3285-5
00:23:40.405 --> 00:23:43.351
<v Madan, Jason>But actually coming from a maths and a
modelling background,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3285-6
00:23:43.351 --> 00:23:47.167
<v Madan, Jason>assumptions are part part of what you do
and they're very important and valid.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3285-7
00:23:47.167 --> 00:23:48.858
<v Madan, Jason>You set out your assumptions first.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3322-0
00:23:50.658 --> 00:23:54.145
<v Madan, Jason>And then you build on those for your
analysis and then you see where your</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3322-1
00:23:54.145 --> 00:23:57.679
<v Madan, Jason>assumptions take you, and there's nothing,
nothing derogatory about making</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3322-2
00:23:57.679 --> 00:24:00.129
<v Madan, Jason>assumptions.
It's just part part of what you do and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3322-3
00:24:00.129 --> 00:24:03.427
<v Madan, Jason>actually thinking about this.
It's not just that we use the same word</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3322-4
00:24:03.427 --> 00:24:06.302
<v Madan, Jason>in different ways,
but we have all these connotations to the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3322-5
00:24:06.302 --> 00:24:06.538
<v Madan, Jason>word.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3349-0
00:24:07.268 --> 00:24:10.068
<v Madan, Jason>But you don't realise until you try and
discuss that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3349-1
00:24:10.068 --> 00:24:13.905
<v Madan, Jason>And I've had people say to me doing
modelling health comics, for example,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3349-2
00:24:13.905 --> 00:24:17.068
<v Madan, Jason>modelling model based health economics
for example research.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3399-0
00:24:18.618 --> 00:24:21.695
<v Madan, Jason>I guess and I sort of see where they're
coming from after a while,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3399-1
00:24:21.695 --> 00:24:24.313
<v Madan, Jason>it just isn't kind of research they're
expecting to see.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3399-2
00:24:24.313 --> 00:24:27.115
<v Madan, Jason>So another example of this then is
another background thing.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3399-3
00:24:27.115 --> 00:24:30.928
<v Madan, Jason>As an economist and a modeller is you're
very much thinking about decision theory.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3399-4
00:24:30.928 --> 00:24:34.051
<v Madan, Jason>A lot of the time when you work with
people who come from different</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3399-5
00:24:34.051 --> 00:24:36.531
<v Madan, Jason>backgrounds, say,
people are interested in open space</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3399-6
00:24:36.531 --> 00:24:37.818
<v Madan, Jason>medicine or or hard science.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3442-0
00:24:39.098 --> 00:24:42.880
<v Madan, Jason>They have a there's a whole kind of
framework around scientific inquiry which</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3442-1
00:24:42.880 --> 00:24:45.596
<v Madan, Jason>is different.
It is a different way of seeing the world</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3442-2
00:24:45.596 --> 00:24:49.573
<v Madan, Jason>and then we do have some contrast about
that and I think where that becomes quite</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3442-3
00:24:49.573 --> 00:24:53.210
<v Madan, Jason>interesting is how we think about
uncertainty and those of you who know me</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3442-4
00:24:53.210 --> 00:24:57.187
<v Madan, Jason>well will know about my love of Bayesian
methods and some of you are horrified by</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3442-5
00:24:57.187 --> 00:24:57.818
<v Madan, Jason>that, I know.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3460-0
00:24:59.378 --> 00:25:01.762
<v Madan, Jason>And I,
but I think it just reflects the kind of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3460-1
00:25:01.762 --> 00:25:05.835
<v Madan, Jason>problems that we think we're dealing with
and I kind of almost one time I thought</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3460-2
00:25:05.835 --> 00:25:06.978
<v Madan, Jason>the difference here is.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3471-0
00:25:08.698 --> 00:25:12.778
<v Madan, Jason>A lot of the statistians I work with in
in the scientific inquiry there.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-0
00:25:13.428 --> 00:25:15.698
<v Madan, Jason>They're like uncertainty is like an
infestation.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-1
00:25:15.698 --> 00:25:18.294
<v Madan, Jason>They're like pest controllers.
We need to eliminate it.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-2
00:25:18.294 --> 00:25:21.306
<v Madan, Jason>We need to eradicate it.
But from a decision size point of view,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-3
00:25:21.306 --> 00:25:23.530
<v Madan, Jason>we're more like kind of wildlife
photographers.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-4
00:25:23.530 --> 00:25:27.284
<v Madan, Jason>We love studying uncertainty in the world
around us. We seem we have to have it.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-5
00:25:27.284 --> 00:25:29.555
<v Madan, Jason>So I think.
But that's all kind of comes to your</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-6
00:25:29.555 --> 00:25:32.475
<v Madan, Jason>training and the kind of problems you're
used to dealing with.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-7
00:25:32.475 --> 00:25:34.606
<v Madan, Jason>But we come together with these
perspectives,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3530-8
00:25:34.606 --> 00:25:38.268
<v Madan, Jason>these different perspectives and have
lots of arguments about something where.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3548-0
00:25:39.058 --> 00:25:41.709
<v Madan, Jason>Actually the the underlying math is all
correct and true.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3548-1
00:25:41.709 --> 00:25:45.000
<v Madan, Jason>It's just the way it kind of fits with
how we see the world is slightly</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3548-2
00:25:45.000 --> 00:25:45.458
<v Madan, Jason>different.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3618-0
00:25:47.528 --> 00:25:51.003
<v Madan, Jason>So a couple of examples,
because I've thought about this a lot and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3618-1
00:25:51.003 --> 00:25:54.633
<v Madan, Jason>I find it really interesting,
fascinating and as well as challenging.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3618-2
00:25:54.633 --> 00:25:58.990
<v Madan, Jason>And there are many other examples of this.
So another one is I think one thing that</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3618-3
00:25:58.990 --> 00:26:02.206
<v Madan, Jason>happens when you do,
if you with my background in training in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3618-4
00:26:02.206 --> 00:26:06.148
<v Madan, Jason>kind of model based evaluation and
operational research management science,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3618-5
00:26:06.148 --> 00:26:10.453
<v Madan, Jason>lot of it is about developing models that
are simplifications of the of the of the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3618-6
00:26:10.453 --> 00:26:11.128
<v Madan, Jason>world, right.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3635-0
00:26:11.938 --> 00:26:14.686
<v Madan, Jason>And a lot of you will have heard the
famous saying we all Strat out with,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3635-1
00:26:14.686 --> 00:26:16.618
<v Madan, Jason>which is all models are wrong,
but some are useful.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3705-0
00:26:18.768 --> 00:26:21.215
<v Madan, Jason>But so,
but to build those models you have to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3705-1
00:26:21.215 --> 00:26:25.417
<v Madan, Jason>engage with the experts because you're
not the expert or the model builder and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3705-2
00:26:25.417 --> 00:26:27.917
<v Madan, Jason>often so working with clinicians,
for example,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3705-3
00:26:27.917 --> 00:26:31.854
<v Madan, Jason>to try and understand the National
History of a disease or how treatments</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3705-4
00:26:31.854 --> 00:26:34.088
<v Madan, Jason>work.
You'll try and get past some of the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3705-5
00:26:34.088 --> 00:26:37.971
<v Madan, Jason>detail because you think you can.
You know it's it's not seeing the wood</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3705-6
00:26:37.971 --> 00:26:40.737
<v Madan, Jason>for the trees,
but actually for the Commission that</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3705-7
00:26:40.737 --> 00:26:44.568
<v Madan, Jason>detail is hugely important for that core
role of being a diagnostician.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3722-0
00:26:45.378 --> 00:26:48.951
<v Madan, Jason>So you're kind of coming out from a very
different point of view and that can lead</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3722-1
00:26:48.951 --> 00:26:52.138
<v Madan, Jason>to lots of frustrations. Well,
you just kind of recognise that over time.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3733-0
00:26:52.928 --> 00:26:55.928
<v Madan, Jason>And finally I the last thing I'd say
about this topic is.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3793-0
00:26:57.618 --> 00:27:00.172
<v Madan, Jason>We are researchers,
but we don't even know I love</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3793-1
00:27:00.172 --> 00:27:02.522
<v Madan, Jason>universities. I love,
I love the ivory tower.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3793-2
00:27:02.522 --> 00:27:05.995
<v Madan, Jason>I don't live in an ivory tower and we
don't live in an ivory tower.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3793-3
00:27:05.995 --> 00:27:09.980
<v Madan, Jason>We work with people delivering care on
the front line. We work with managers,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3793-4
00:27:09.980 --> 00:27:12.738
<v Madan, Jason>we work with the public.
But actually with academics,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3793-5
00:27:12.738 --> 00:27:16.774
<v Madan, Jason>we have a certain way of thinking about
things and certain way certain sort of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3793-6
00:27:16.774 --> 00:27:20.809
<v Madan, Jason>expectations around processes and rigour
which maybe don't sit with how people</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3793-7
00:27:20.809 --> 00:27:22.138
<v Madan, Jason>outside that bubble think.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3805-0
00:27:22.938 --> 00:27:24.738
<v Madan, Jason>And again,
that can be a huge challenge in in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3805-1
00:27:24.738 --> 00:27:26.578
<v Madan, Jason>running these large multidisciplinary
studies.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3865-0
00:27:27.628 --> 00:27:31.219
<v Madan, Jason>So this can be frustrating I think,
and the definitely day-to-day I'm I'm</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3865-1
00:27:31.219 --> 00:27:35.296
<v Madan, Jason>hopefully some people will recognise this.
We get these mutual frustrations through</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3865-2
00:27:35.296 --> 00:27:39.131
<v Madan, Jason>mutual gaps in understanding but we have
to work past that and I think you can</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3865-3
00:27:39.131 --> 00:27:42.965
<v Madan, Jason>think about the you'll you'll probably
know the story of the the blind men and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3865-4
00:27:42.965 --> 00:27:46.994
<v Madan, Jason>the elephant and each of those blind men
they're holding on to bit of the elephant</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3865-5
00:27:46.994 --> 00:27:49.906
<v Madan, Jason>and they're not unsaning the elephant
one's feeling a tree.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3865-6
00:27:49.906 --> 00:27:52.188
<v Madan, Jason>One's feeling a rock. One's feeling,
you know.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3876-0
00:27:53.018 --> 00:27:54.740
<v Madan, Jason>I kind of I kind of what they're all
feeling,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3876-1
00:27:54.740 --> 00:27:57.698
<v Madan, Jason>but none of them are feeling the elephant.
But if they can talk to each other.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3891-0
00:27:58.698 --> 00:28:00.651
<v Madan, Jason>We can work out what an elephant looks
like,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3891-1
00:28:00.651 --> 00:28:03.777
<v Madan, Jason>and I think that's what makes this
fascinating and important as well as</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3891-2
00:28:03.777 --> 00:28:04.298
<v Madan, Jason>frustrating.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3892-0
00:28:11.338 --> 00:28:11.498
<v Madan, Jason>OK.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3923-0
00:28:15.208 --> 00:28:18.201
<v Madan, Jason>Because this is, I think, really,
I'm so fascinated by this topic,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3923-1
00:28:18.201 --> 00:28:21.730
<v Madan, Jason>I wanted to give you an example of a
project where we're we're looking at this</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3923-2
00:28:21.730 --> 00:28:24.768
<v Madan, Jason>explicitly. So in Atara,
which is a project that started last year.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3947-0
00:28:26.338 --> 00:28:30.119
<v Madan, Jason>Several of us are looking at the
integration of TB and lung health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3947-1
00:28:30.119 --> 00:28:33.618
<v Madan, Jason>services across three countries. Nigeria,
Tanfania and Kenya.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3977-0
00:28:35.338 --> 00:28:39.517
<v Madan, Jason>And the background to this is TB is
globally recognised health concern,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3977-1
00:28:39.517 --> 00:28:44.104
<v Madan, Jason>huge amount of attention by bodies like
who and most countries will have quite</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/3977-2
00:28:44.104 --> 00:28:48.458
<v Madan, Jason>relatively well funded and and well
monitored and effective TB programmes.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4007-0
00:28:49.728 --> 00:28:53.818
<v Madan, Jason>But there are other conditions that
actually do cause a huge and growing</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4007-1
00:28:53.818 --> 00:28:56.564
<v Madan, Jason>problem in those countries. COPD, asthma,
so on,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4007-2
00:28:56.564 --> 00:29:00.990
<v Madan, Jason>they don't have their own programmes,
they get treated alongside everyone else</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4007-3
00:29:00.990 --> 00:29:03.288
<v Madan, Jason>in the hospitals and the clinics locally.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4019-0
00:29:04.898 --> 00:29:09.578
<v Madan, Jason>And actually that not only is that maybe
an imbalance, but it's.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4081-0
00:29:12.038 --> 00:29:15.315
<v Madan, Jason>It it it's, it's it's.
It ignores the fact that these things are</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4081-1
00:29:15.315 --> 00:29:18.291
<v Madan, Jason>related. So if you have TB,
if you have quite lung health,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4081-2
00:29:18.291 --> 00:29:22.073
<v Madan, Jason>you're more likely to develop TB.
If you develop TB, even if you're cured,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4081-3
00:29:22.073 --> 00:29:25.401
<v Madan, Jason>you're left with lung damage.
That leaves you vulnerable to these</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4081-4
00:29:25.401 --> 00:29:29.435
<v Madan, Jason>chronic health lung health conditions.
So there's a real there's the motivation</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4081-5
00:29:29.435 --> 00:29:32.713
<v Madan, Jason>is to look at kind of joined up thinking
about these conditions,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4081-6
00:29:32.713 --> 00:29:36.545
<v Madan, Jason>but that creates lots of questions.
What do we actually mean by integrating</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4081-7
00:29:36.545 --> 00:29:36.798
<v Madan, Jason>them?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4087-0
00:29:37.578 --> 00:29:40.898
<v Madan, Jason>Why has it not happened yet?
What are the patient perspectives on this?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4118-0
00:29:41.628 --> 00:29:45.527
<v Madan, Jason>As economists, you know what?
What the resources available and what</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4118-1
00:29:45.527 --> 00:29:49.140
<v Madan, Jason>what's the impact on poverty and how can
they be be addressed.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4118-2
00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:53.613
<v Madan, Jason>So as you can see this is this is an
elephant kind of problem and it can't be</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4118-3
00:29:53.613 --> 00:29:54.588
<v Madan, Jason>tackled in silos.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4127-0
00:30:00.108 --> 00:30:02.388
<v Madan, Jason>And one thing that's quite rewarding
about this is.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4189-0
00:30:03.878 --> 00:30:07.330
<v Madan, Jason>And if you've explicitly recognised that
and I'm in the project,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4189-1
00:30:07.330 --> 00:30:11.101
<v Madan, Jason>so we work with a multidisciplinary team,
we have clinicians, experts,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4189-2
00:30:11.101 --> 00:30:14.287
<v Madan, Jason>young health from,
from imperial and from the three African</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4189-3
00:30:14.287 --> 00:30:16.890
<v Madan, Jason>countries,
we have myself as a health economist,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4189-4
00:30:16.890 --> 00:30:19.545
<v Madan, Jason>we have statistician,
we have a social scientist,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4189-5
00:30:19.545 --> 00:30:22.466
<v Madan, Jason>anthropologist,
and we've thought from the start about</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4189-6
00:30:22.466 --> 00:30:26.450
<v Madan, Jason>how we're going to work together.
So the project funds three PhD students,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4189-7
00:30:26.450 --> 00:30:29.318
<v Madan, Jason>health economist,
a social scientist and a clinician.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4208-0
00:30:30.138 --> 00:30:33.636
<v Madan, Jason>And there's also a postdoc whose
background is in qualitative health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4208-1
00:30:33.636 --> 00:30:36.578
<v Madan, Jason>systems research,
and we've set up a joint working group.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4218-0
00:30:37.208 --> 00:30:40.928
<v Madan, Jason>There was junior researchers.
They come together.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4289-0
00:30:42.398 --> 00:30:46.061
<v Madan, Jason>Show each other's research plans,
comment on each other's findings so they</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4289-1
00:30:46.061 --> 00:30:48.259
<v Madan, Jason>get that outside perspective from the
start,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4289-2
00:30:48.259 --> 00:30:52.362
<v Madan, Jason>and we're also running workshops and meet
our disciplines where we share what we're</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4289-3
00:30:52.362 --> 00:30:54.950
<v Madan, Jason>doing and we get feedback on whether it
makes sense.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4289-4
00:30:54.950 --> 00:30:58.663
<v Madan, Jason>So what's my life about this project?
A lot is that it's it we're trying to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4289-5
00:30:58.663 --> 00:31:02.570
<v Madan, Jason>explicitly as a priority from the start
and hopefully we'll be able to see in a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4289-6
00:31:02.570 --> 00:31:06.478
<v Madan, Jason>few years time that it's really helped us
become more insightful and effective.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4322-0
00:31:13.148 --> 00:31:17.681
<v Madan, Jason>So here's another joy of being able to
call Miss is that you can actually make a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4322-1
00:31:17.681 --> 00:31:20.647
<v Madan, Jason>difference,
as Gavin kindly mentioned you know we we</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4322-2
00:31:20.647 --> 00:31:25.124
<v Madan, Jason>the work we do as health economists it
directly influences UK and international</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4322-3
00:31:25.124 --> 00:31:26.468
<v Madan, Jason>guidance and guidelines.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4350-0
00:31:28.018 --> 00:31:32.118
<v Madan, Jason>It it it's also happened globally and
that's one thing I've really,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4350-1
00:31:32.118 --> 00:31:36.521
<v Madan, Jason>really been really motivated to be
involved in with lots of other health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4350-2
00:31:36.521 --> 00:31:39.778
<v Madan, Jason>policies to push The Who to recognise the
problem of.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4369-0
00:31:41.498 --> 00:31:46.174
<v Madan, Jason>Impoverishment in TB and they've made WH
have made the elimination of TB related</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4369-1
00:31:46.174 --> 00:31:48.138
<v Madan, Jason>catastrophic costs to policy goal.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4423-0
00:31:49.088 --> 00:31:52.690
<v Madan, Jason>And I've played a very small part in that
with lots of our promise,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4423-1
00:31:52.690 --> 00:31:56.715
<v Madan, Jason>and that's a real a real source of pride
and and sense that you're making a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4423-2
00:31:56.715 --> 00:32:01.006
<v Madan, Jason>difference and it's wonderful working in
a in a trials unit where as you'll know</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4423-3
00:32:01.006 --> 00:32:04.926
<v Madan, Jason>that the trials that we do directly then
go in and feed in these national</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4423-4
00:32:04.926 --> 00:32:09.057
<v Madan, Jason>international guidelines and change the
day-to-day realities of patient care.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4423-5
00:32:09.057 --> 00:32:10.488
<v Madan, Jason>And that is very rewarding.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4475-0
00:32:14.248 --> 00:32:18.099
<v Madan, Jason>But with every joy comes a challenge.
That's my theme today.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4475-1
00:32:18.099 --> 00:32:21.887
<v Madan, Jason>So actually the flip side of health of
healthcare research,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4475-2
00:32:21.887 --> 00:32:25.865
<v Madan, Jason>I think is inevitably and rightly it's a
very political topic.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4475-3
00:32:25.865 --> 00:32:30.600
<v Madan, Jason>You can't just put your research out
there and have your peers applaud it.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4475-4
00:32:30.600 --> 00:32:34.073
<v Madan, Jason>At conferences,
you'll find you may have a very strong</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4475-5
00:32:34.073 --> 00:32:38.555
<v Madan, Jason>view about what should happen,
but the role in the real world decision</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4475-6
00:32:38.555 --> 00:32:40.008
<v Madan, Jason>making is very complex.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4491-0
00:32:40.778 --> 00:32:43.773
<v Madan, Jason>There are various different special
interests that lobby together or against</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4491-1
00:32:43.773 --> 00:32:46.458
<v Madan, Jason>each other against each other.
There are all sorts of issues around.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4558-0
00:32:47.078 --> 00:32:51.148
<v Madan, Jason>How budgets get allocated and you find
that you need investment in one part of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4558-1
00:32:51.148 --> 00:32:55.167
<v Madan, Jason>the system, like a local authority.
But the benefits are actually accruing to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4558-2
00:32:55.167 --> 00:32:58.877
<v Madan, Jason>the NHS or many examples like that.
So it makes it very difficult to to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4558-3
00:32:58.877 --> 00:33:02.226
<v Madan, Jason>advocate advocate for something when
someone's bearing the pain,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4558-4
00:33:02.226 --> 00:33:06.399
<v Madan, Jason>the other one's sort of half seeing the
fruit and there's a more general problem</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4558-5
00:33:06.399 --> 00:33:09.954
<v Madan, Jason>with that leads from that,
which is we live in a world where there's</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4558-6
00:33:09.954 --> 00:33:14.128
<v Madan, Jason>a lot short termism a lot of the lot of
the benefits that we measure and want to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4558-7
00:33:14.128 --> 00:33:14.798
<v Madan, Jason>abdicate for.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4576-0
00:33:15.578 --> 00:33:17.586
<v Madan, Jason>There are a few years or decades down the
line,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4576-1
00:33:17.586 --> 00:33:20.138
<v Madan, Jason>and that's a challenging thing to get
people to to buy into.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4629-0
00:33:21.888 --> 00:33:24.928
<v Madan, Jason>So what can we do about this?
As health economists,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4629-1
00:33:24.928 --> 00:33:29.430
<v Madan, Jason>particularly for the the row at the back
question for you to tomorrow? Well,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4629-2
00:33:29.430 --> 00:33:33.874
<v Madan, Jason>my my suggestion is I think there's two
ways two different ways to do this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4629-3
00:33:33.874 --> 00:33:37.206
<v Madan, Jason>One is to stand your ground and advocate
for what we do.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4629-4
00:33:37.206 --> 00:33:42.001
<v Madan, Jason>So you know that if we believe that the
certain decision to adopt or not adopt an</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4629-5
00:33:42.001 --> 00:33:46.620
<v Madan, Jason>intervention or to adopt policy is the
right one overall for maximising health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4629-6
00:33:46.620 --> 00:33:47.848
<v Madan, Jason>and improving health.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4636-0
00:33:48.778 --> 00:33:50.058
<v Madan, Jason>We should try and explain how we got to
that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4650-0
00:33:52.258 --> 00:33:56.006
<v Madan, Jason>Conclusion. So it's it's,
it's honest to explain our kind of our</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4650-1
00:33:56.006 --> 00:33:57.218
<v Madan, Jason>ideas as best we can.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4700-0
00:33:58.498 --> 00:34:02.223
<v Madan, Jason>But we shouldn't just assume that that is
that we should never obviously assume</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4700-1
00:34:02.223 --> 00:34:05.203
<v Madan, Jason>that the problem is we're right,
but we're just not understood.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4700-2
00:34:05.203 --> 00:34:07.903
<v Madan, Jason>We need to just shout louder.
Maybe the problem often is,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4700-3
00:34:07.903 --> 00:34:09.952
<v Madan, Jason>is that we're answering the wrong
question.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4700-4
00:34:09.952 --> 00:34:13.537
<v Madan, Jason>So that's the thing we probably need to
think about a lot more S economists,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4700-5
00:34:13.537 --> 00:34:17.216
<v Madan, Jason>and I'm going to spend the rest of this
lecture delving into that challenge of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4700-6
00:34:17.216 --> 00:34:19.498
<v Madan, Jason>what are we saying and what should we be
saying?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4757-0
00:34:24.658 --> 00:34:27.340
<v Madan, Jason>Again,
coming back to some of the many wonderful</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4757-1
00:34:27.340 --> 00:34:31.118
<v Madan, Jason>PhD students I've worked with.
So one student was Megan was based in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4757-2
00:34:31.118 --> 00:34:33.581
<v Madan, Jason>Kenyon,
and I worked with Megan on a project</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4757-3
00:34:33.581 --> 00:34:38.016
<v Madan, Jason>called Reach Out looking at investing in
community health workers in East Africa</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4757-4
00:34:38.016 --> 00:34:42.067
<v Madan, Jason>who often seen as cheap labour or free
labour because they're volunteers.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4757-5
00:34:42.067 --> 00:34:46.611
<v Madan, Jason>But actually a little bit of investment.
We found we argued for and found a little</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4757-6
00:34:46.611 --> 00:34:49.458
<v Madan, Jason>bit of investment in their training and
motivation.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4765-0
00:34:50.258 --> 00:34:53.218
<v Madan, Jason>Could make their contribution so much
more effective.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4808-0
00:34:54.768 --> 00:34:58.088
<v Madan, Jason>One question Megan was asking,
I think very good question was OK.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4808-1
00:34:58.088 --> 00:35:01.106
<v Madan, Jason>If we can show this,
can we convince people to do something</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4808-2
00:35:01.106 --> 00:35:05.030
<v Madan, Jason>about it? So she went and she'd come back.
This idea that we do need a lot of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4808-3
00:35:05.030 --> 00:35:08.501
<v Madan, Jason>qualitative methods in the health
economics. She went and talked to,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4808-4
00:35:08.501 --> 00:35:12.073
<v Madan, Jason>you know, people of ministries,
local decision makers in the countries</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4808-5
00:35:12.073 --> 00:35:14.488
<v Madan, Jason>and asked them,
is this analysis useful to you?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4834-0
00:35:16.058 --> 00:35:19.810
<v Madan, Jason>They basically said no, not really.
And she wrote a paper with us about why</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4834-1
00:35:19.810 --> 00:35:23.761
<v Madan, Jason>and the kind of reasons were things like
we tended to take as health economists</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4834-2
00:35:23.761 --> 00:35:27.218
<v Madan, Jason>working on the global scene,
we tended to sort of take a perspective.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4899-0
00:35:28.578 --> 00:35:31.555
<v Madan, Jason>Of global bodies,
like who the Gates Foundation and those</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4899-1
00:35:31.555 --> 00:35:35.303
<v Madan, Jason>ways of thinking about resource
allocation problems work quite different</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4899-2
00:35:35.303 --> 00:35:38.999
<v Madan, Jason>to the way the sort challenges that the
more local decision makers had.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4899-3
00:35:38.999 --> 00:35:42.234
<v Madan, Jason>There was a focus on finance.
We weren't maybe being too much.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4899-4
00:35:42.234 --> 00:35:45.827
<v Madan, Jason>The money meant the money wasn't,
and we weren't thinking about other</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4899-5
00:35:45.827 --> 00:35:49.370
<v Madan, Jason>issues that were mattered locally,
like access coverage of services,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4899-6
00:35:49.370 --> 00:35:53.220
<v Madan, Jason>quality of those services and the
challenge you always find is you can say</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4899-7
00:35:53.220 --> 00:35:54.658
<v Madan, Jason>something is cost effective.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4904-0
00:35:55.418 --> 00:35:56.378
<v Madan, Jason>I'll come back to that term.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4935-0
00:35:58.098 --> 00:36:00.556
<v Madan, Jason>Cost effective,
but that doesn't create any more money to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4935-1
00:36:00.556 --> 00:36:02.930
<v Madan, Jason>fund it, does it?
So you sometimes find that there's an</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4935-2
00:36:02.930 --> 00:36:04.964
<v Madan, Jason>implicit,
very tough decision about what do you</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4935-3
00:36:04.964 --> 00:36:07.465
<v Madan, Jason>stop doing to fund it and stopping doing
things. You know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4935-4
00:36:07.465 --> 00:36:10.178
<v Madan, Jason>if they're not cost effective is really
hard to do politically.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4964-0
00:36:11.898 --> 00:36:15.225
<v Madan, Jason>Consoled easily,
but it was useful for her to, I think,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4964-1
00:36:15.225 --> 00:36:19.979
<v Madan, Jason>identify these challenges and similarly
an at another PhD student I worked with</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4964-2
00:36:19.979 --> 00:36:22.771
<v Madan, Jason>is now at LSC,
was interested in investment in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4964-3
00:36:22.771 --> 00:36:26.218
<v Madan, Jason>intergenerational mental health,
so basically supporting.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4976-0
00:36:27.898 --> 00:36:31.005
<v Madan, Jason>Particularly mothers who'd given birth
recently and try and protect their mental</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/4976-1
00:36:31.005 --> 00:36:32.578
<v Madan, Jason>health. And she was showing that there's.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-0
00:36:33.248 --> 00:36:37.215
<v Madan, Jason>Huge long term benefits both of the mums
but also to their children from doing</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-1
00:36:37.215 --> 00:36:39.374
<v Madan, Jason>this,
but she was running into some of the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-2
00:36:39.374 --> 00:36:43.341
<v Madan, Jason>problems I've mentioned and she tried to
address that in her PhD again through</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-3
00:36:43.341 --> 00:36:45.852
<v Madan, Jason>through,
through dialogue with people rather than</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-4
00:36:45.852 --> 00:36:48.815
<v Madan, Jason>just saying it's cost effective,
you need to listen to me.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-5
00:36:48.815 --> 00:36:52.883
<v Madan, Jason>And again she found that the challenge
here was around trying to think about how</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-6
00:36:52.883 --> 00:36:55.946
<v Madan, Jason>you advocate for long term benefits in
the short term world,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-7
00:36:55.946 --> 00:36:59.913
<v Madan, Jason>but also the importance of grounding your
assumptions to use that word. Again,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5040-8
00:36:59.913 --> 00:37:00.968
<v Madan, Jason>if you'll forgive me.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5053-0
00:37:01.778 --> 00:37:05.475
<v Madan, Jason>Ground those assumptions in the way that
stakeholders think what they find</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5053-1
00:37:05.475 --> 00:37:06.018
<v Madan, Jason>incredible.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5117-0
00:37:06.948 --> 00:37:10.802
<v Madan, Jason>So it's that constant reinforcing what
you're doing based on what the people</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5117-1
00:37:10.802 --> 00:37:14.857
<v Madan, Jason>you're trying to influence think and make
sure what you're assuming doesn't lose</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5117-2
00:37:14.857 --> 00:37:17.109
<v Madan, Jason>them.
You don't want to lose people's credit</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5117-3
00:37:17.109 --> 00:37:19.863
<v Madan, Jason>credibility.
Somewhere along the line then you lose it</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5117-4
00:37:19.863 --> 00:37:22.816
<v Madan, Jason>completely. So again,
to really insights about some of the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5117-5
00:37:22.816 --> 00:37:26.220
<v Madan, Jason>practical issues that you face.
And so this is a leading to an area</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5117-6
00:37:26.220 --> 00:37:29.324
<v Madan, Jason>really interesting area,
I think of health economics recently</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5117-7
00:37:29.324 --> 00:37:32.428
<v Madan, Jason>around participatory health economics.
People are calling it.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5128-0
00:37:33.218 --> 00:37:36.801
<v Madan, Jason>We're actually trying to engage with
decision makers and involve the right new</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5128-1
00:37:36.801 --> 00:37:37.618
<v Madan, Jason>start rather than.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5169-0
00:37:38.548 --> 00:37:42.279
<v Madan, Jason>Doing our thing and then putting our
results out there in a conference and so</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5169-1
00:37:42.279 --> 00:37:45.627
<v Madan, Jason>shout out people like Harris at
Birmingham who've set up a network of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5169-2
00:37:45.627 --> 00:37:49.358
<v Madan, Jason>both health economists and people working
in integrated care boards and civil</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5169-3
00:37:49.358 --> 00:37:52.563
<v Madan, Jason>service to think about well,
what kinds of work do we do to health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5169-4
00:37:52.563 --> 00:37:54.668
<v Madan, Jason>economists and is it what you need to
hear?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5176-0
00:38:01.058 --> 00:38:03.898
<v Madan, Jason>So that's the last bit I want to talk
about today.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5198-0
00:38:05.818 --> 00:38:07.996
<v Madan, Jason>Actually,
what is the kind of evidence we're</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5198-1
00:38:07.996 --> 00:38:11.480
<v Madan, Jason>producing and is it the right or
residence? And now I think about this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5198-2
00:38:11.480 --> 00:38:15.498
<v Madan, Jason>It reminds me of you may remember there
was this whole joke a while ago about how.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5217-0
00:38:16.068 --> 00:38:20.474
<v Madan, Jason>The Daily Mail had this campaign to label
everything in the world as either causing</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5217-1
00:38:20.474 --> 00:38:23.308
<v Madan, Jason>cancer or curing it,
sometimes both at the same time.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5276-0
00:38:24.858 --> 00:38:28.403
<v Madan, Jason>And I was mad at that because sometimes
it feels like we kind of do the same</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5276-1
00:38:28.403 --> 00:38:31.718
<v Madan, Jason>thing with cost effectiveness.
So sometimes either we see or people see</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5276-2
00:38:31.718 --> 00:38:35.401
<v Madan, Jason>our world is coming in and saying it's
cost effective. It's not cost effective,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5276-3
00:38:35.401 --> 00:38:38.302
<v Madan, Jason>it's cost effective.
It's not cost effective and just a little</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5276-4
00:38:38.302 --> 00:38:42.032
<v Madan, Jason>other aside to try and illustrate this,
you'll note you'll probably guess that I</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5276-5
00:38:42.032 --> 00:38:45.715
<v Madan, Jason>tried to use AI to get me a little stamp
and I'd like to thought I thought this</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5276-6
00:38:45.715 --> 00:38:47.741
<v Madan, Jason>isn't very good,
something wrong with this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5276-7
00:38:47.741 --> 00:38:50.458
<v Madan, Jason>And I thought spelling I've made spelling
mistake. Have I?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5331-0
00:38:50.998 --> 00:38:54.343
<v Madan, Jason>It took me a few days to realise what you
probably spotted,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5331-1
00:38:54.343 --> 00:38:58.860
<v Madan, Jason>which is this the stamped in the wrong
place. It's supposed to be at the bottom,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5331-2
00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:03.209
<v Madan, Jason>is it? Why would you put it on the side?
And so now I've left in the Polycarp</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5331-3
00:39:03.209 --> 00:39:06.053
<v Madan, Jason>decision.
Lovely illustration of don't panic about</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5331-4
00:39:06.053 --> 00:39:09.510
<v Madan, Jason>AI just yet, people.
Because it can be pretty stupid and tell</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5331-5
00:39:09.510 --> 00:39:13.023
<v Madan, Jason>your students that too.
I'm sure that the youngsters among you</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5331-6
00:39:13.023 --> 00:39:15.198
<v Madan, Jason>will have been better at using it. But.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5349-0
00:39:16.018 --> 00:39:19.003
<v Madan, Jason>I think that that shows the sort of
things that AI will do and do race</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5349-1
00:39:19.003 --> 00:39:21.021
<v Madan, Jason>Jubilee,
so I don't feel that we're going to be</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5349-2
00:39:21.021 --> 00:39:21.778
<v Madan, Jason>replaced just yet.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5363-0
00:39:26.728 --> 00:39:29.013
<v Madan, Jason>Well,
I've thought for a long time that I feel</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5363-1
00:39:29.013 --> 00:39:31.688
<v Madan, Jason>a bit uncomfortable about summarising our
findings as.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5434-0
00:39:33.008 --> 00:39:37.097
<v Madan, Jason>What's effectiveness and in sometimes
when we work kind of enforces that we we</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5434-1
00:39:37.097 --> 00:39:41.186
<v Madan, Jason>people phrase it as we we look at the
clinical and cost effectiveness of a new</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5434-2
00:39:41.186 --> 00:39:44.084
<v Madan, Jason>drug or treatment as if they're kind of
similar things.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5434-3
00:39:44.084 --> 00:39:48.225
<v Madan, Jason>I think they're really not and I think
what really gets hidden we we we produce</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5434-4
00:39:48.225 --> 00:39:52.314
<v Madan, Jason>these wonderful ratios where we we take
the difference in cost between the new</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5434-5
00:39:52.314 --> 00:39:56.455
<v Madan, Jason>and the old we take how much better the
new is than the old and if if you if it</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5434-6
00:39:56.455 --> 00:40:00.648
<v Madan, Jason>if it's a certain amount of benefit costs
you know if it costs a certain amount.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5445-0
00:40:02.818 --> 00:40:05.098
<v Madan, Jason>To get the benefit you want.
If it's less than that, you're fine.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5445-1
00:40:05.098 --> 00:40:05.858
<v Madan, Jason>You're cost effective.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5493-0
00:40:06.318 --> 00:40:10.603
<v Madan, Jason>If it costs too much to get benefit,
you want you're not cost effective and so</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5493-1
00:40:10.603 --> 00:40:14.346
<v Madan, Jason>we use all these jog in terms like ISIS
and we presented this stuff.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5493-2
00:40:14.346 --> 00:40:18.578
<v Madan, Jason>But actually what I think that sometimes
hides quite importantly is the value</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5493-3
00:40:18.578 --> 00:40:22.538
<v Madan, Jason>judgments involved because I think really
what we mean when we say cross</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5493-4
00:40:22.538 --> 00:40:26.661
<v Madan, Jason>effectiveness is we're trying to help
people decide how to best use limited</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5493-5
00:40:26.661 --> 00:40:27.638
<v Madan, Jason>resources we have.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5501-0
00:40:29.138 --> 00:40:30.958
<v Madan, Jason>And inevitably, actually,
when you sit down and think about it,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5501-1
00:40:30.958 --> 00:40:31.698
<v Madan, Jason>this is a value judgement.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5531-0
00:40:33.298 --> 00:40:36.246
<v Madan, Jason>It's political. It has to be.
It depends also depends on who's asking.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5531-1
00:40:36.246 --> 00:40:39.235
<v Madan, Jason>And we do know this as S economist.
We'll always start by saying, well,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5531-2
00:40:39.235 --> 00:40:42.017
<v Madan, Jason>first you need to decide on your
perspective. Your decision maker.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5531-3
00:40:42.017 --> 00:40:45.048
<v Madan, Jason>Then you can't and must forget,
as we just go along and start doing ISIS</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5531-4
00:40:45.048 --> 00:40:45.298
<v Madan, Jason>again.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5556-0
00:40:47.058 --> 00:40:51.089
<v Madan, Jason>So I think maybe we need to and this is
this is on us as health economists to try</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5556-1
00:40:51.089 --> 00:40:54.678
<v Madan, Jason>and make this a bit clearer in our
discussions and and so in my last few</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5556-2
00:40:54.678 --> 00:40:56.498
<v Madan, Jason>minutes I'm going to try and explore.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5561-0
00:40:58.018 --> 00:40:58.978
<v Madan, Jason>Some ways we might want to do that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5582-0
00:41:01.698 --> 00:41:04.616
<v Madan, Jason>So you might think that even cost OK,
well costs fine.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5582-1
00:41:04.616 --> 00:41:07.376
<v Madan, Jason>Surely cost is a is a technical and dry
and boring,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5582-2
00:41:07.376 --> 00:41:09.818
<v Madan, Jason>but everyone can agree on what cost is
right.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5603-0
00:41:11.498 --> 00:41:15.283
<v Madan, Jason>This is perhaps an example though of that
kind of language issue I pointed out,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5603-1
00:41:15.283 --> 00:41:18.218
<v Madan, Jason>where as health economists,
we know who the when we say cost.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5621-0
00:41:18.728 --> 00:41:21.476
<v Madan, Jason>Using that word as a synonym for input
resources,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5621-1
00:41:21.476 --> 00:41:25.489
<v Madan, Jason>things you have that can do good,
but I think a lot of people hear costs</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5621-2
00:41:25.489 --> 00:41:27.248
<v Madan, Jason>and they think money in budgets.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5672-0
00:41:28.818 --> 00:41:31.528
<v Madan, Jason>And there's a difference that we need to
flag up,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5672-1
00:41:31.528 --> 00:41:35.974
<v Madan, Jason>because often and you'll find the most
important resource that you're looking at.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5672-2
00:41:35.974 --> 00:41:38.359
<v Madan, Jason>Allocating isn't money.
It's time the time,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5672-3
00:41:38.359 --> 00:41:40.744
<v Madan, Jason>the valuable time of clinicians and
others,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5672-4
00:41:40.744 --> 00:41:43.238
<v Madan, Jason>and the valuable time of patients and
carers.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5672-5
00:41:43.238 --> 00:41:46.871
<v Madan, Jason>That's actually the usually the most
important resource. Not many,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5672-6
00:41:46.871 --> 00:41:50.178
<v Madan, Jason>but also how you value that resource,
how you measure value.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5741-0
00:41:50.548 --> 00:41:54.573
<v Madan, Jason>Depends on who's asking. Again, it does.
So we could have example of this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5741-1
00:41:54.573 --> 00:41:58.705
<v Madan, Jason>So one is there's a project called
Milestone we did where we were looking at</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5741-2
00:41:58.705 --> 00:42:02.892
<v Madan, Jason>psychiatrist managing the transition from
adolescent services to adult mental</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5741-3
00:42:02.892 --> 00:42:06.917
<v Madan, Jason>services. So I can take milestones,
still a traumatic word for some of us.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5741-4
00:42:06.917 --> 00:42:10.835
<v Madan, Jason>So sorry to bring it up again,
but you can ask afterwards as to why that</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5741-5
00:42:10.835 --> 00:42:13.089
<v Madan, Jason>is.
But I haven't got any days to go into</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5741-6
00:42:13.089 --> 00:42:15.988
<v Madan, Jason>that now. But anyway,
one thing we didn't master was.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5760-0
00:42:16.778 --> 00:42:19.742
<v Madan, Jason>We asked the psychiatrist,
the child psychiatrist,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5760-1
00:42:19.742 --> 00:42:24.334
<v Madan, Jason>how much time do you spend assessing
whether your patient needs to go to adult</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5760-2
00:42:24.334 --> 00:42:24.858
<v Madan, Jason>services?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5820-0
00:42:25.528 --> 00:42:29.627
<v Madan, Jason>And if so, what kind of needs they have?
And I don't want to put him back and said</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5820-1
00:42:29.627 --> 00:42:33.034
<v Madan, Jason>the interview in Croatia,
wherever it was said, the Commission said,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5820-2
00:42:33.034 --> 00:42:36.590
<v Madan, Jason>told us they spend as much time,
but they usually do it when they're in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5820-3
00:42:36.590 --> 00:42:39.405
<v Madan, Jason>the shower, you know,
a bit like Archimedes in the bath.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5820-4
00:42:39.405 --> 00:42:43.405
<v Madan, Jason>They did all their best thinking in the
shower. Does that count? Is that a cost?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5820-5
00:42:43.405 --> 00:42:46.369
<v Madan, Jason>In some ways? No,
because your trust isn't paying for that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5820-6
00:42:46.369 --> 00:42:50.171
<v Madan, Jason>But actually it is a use of valuable time
that could be done to use for many</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5820-7
00:42:50.171 --> 00:42:52.888
<v Madan, Jason>different things.
So it kind of maybe does it doesn't.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5841-0
00:42:54.018 --> 00:42:56.918
<v Madan, Jason>And another example.
So there are many examples like this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5841-1
00:42:56.918 --> 00:42:59.720
<v Madan, Jason>When you dig into it.
So I've mentioned community health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5841-2
00:42:59.720 --> 00:43:02.129
<v Madan, Jason>workers.
One problem is often they get seen as a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5841-3
00:43:02.129 --> 00:43:02.818
<v Madan, Jason>free resource.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5868-0
00:43:03.788 --> 00:43:06.824
<v Madan, Jason>And therefore, using the cost of 0.
But actually that is a valuable resource.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5868-1
00:43:06.824 --> 00:43:09.587
<v Madan, Jason>Their time is valuable, but again,
it kind of depends on who's asking.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5868-2
00:43:09.587 --> 00:43:11.884
<v Madan, Jason>So from a budgetary point of view,
people might say, well,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5868-3
00:43:11.884 --> 00:43:13.908
<v Madan, Jason>I'm not paying for it,
so why not worried about it?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5928-0
00:43:15.458 --> 00:43:18.302
<v Madan, Jason>Is it does evaluate in the cost as a
value judgement,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5928-1
00:43:18.302 --> 00:43:22.253
<v Madan, Jason>and perhaps the most important of all,
I think is we know that that a huge</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5928-2
00:43:22.253 --> 00:43:26.572
<v Madan, Jason>amount of resource involves people caring
for their loved ones when they're sick,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5928-3
00:43:26.572 --> 00:43:29.838
<v Madan, Jason>so informal carers,
and again that isn't some of the NHS pays</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5928-4
00:43:29.838 --> 00:43:32.472
<v Madan, Jason>for so often we might exclude that from
analysis,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5928-5
00:43:32.472 --> 00:43:36.581
<v Madan, Jason>but there's growing recognition on how
important it is and if an intervention</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5928-6
00:43:36.581 --> 00:43:40.058
<v Madan, Jason>reduces the burden on families and how
much they have to provide.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5957-0
00:43:41.158 --> 00:43:43.791
<v Madan, Jason>We shouldn't ignore that.
Then we'll be we'll be doing an</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5957-1
00:43:43.791 --> 00:43:46.470
<v Madan, Jason>intervention that benefits carers a
deservice wouldn't we?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5957-2
00:43:46.470 --> 00:43:49.377
<v Madan, Jason>So even just you might think it was quite
boring and technical,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/5957-3
00:43:49.377 --> 00:43:52.238
<v Madan, Jason>like cost can have a loss of judgement
and subjectivity in it.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-0
00:43:54.728 --> 00:43:57.392
<v Madan, Jason>But actually,
as I keep coming back to my my theme of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-1
00:43:57.392 --> 00:44:00.549
<v Madan, Jason>today, valuing the real,
the real challenge in health policy is</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-2
00:44:00.549 --> 00:44:02.917
<v Madan, Jason>value.
And again you have these sort of cliches</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-3
00:44:02.917 --> 00:44:06.666
<v Madan, Jason>you you lean on when you're teaching off.
You've been teaching for a while.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-4
00:44:06.666 --> 00:44:10.218
<v Madan, Jason>One of those is I say to new students in
health economics. OK, imagine.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-5
00:44:10.218 --> 00:44:13.622
<v Madan, Jason>So you're buying something.
It could be as simple as a pair of shoes</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-6
00:44:13.622 --> 00:44:17.224
<v Madan, Jason>or it can be as, like a house.
The price tag's the simple bit. Actually,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-7
00:44:17.224 --> 00:44:21.072
<v Madan, Jason>the hard bit is working out to drop the
house a over here or house to be over</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6018-8
00:44:21.072 --> 00:44:21.368
<v Madan, Jason>there.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6042-0
00:44:22.178 --> 00:44:25.210
<v Madan, Jason>Trying to balance those pros and cons
balance those benefits,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6042-1
00:44:25.210 --> 00:44:28.928
<v Madan, Jason>values them against each other when
they're so different and the same thing</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6042-2
00:44:28.928 --> 00:44:30.298
<v Madan, Jason>is true in health economics.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6053-0
00:44:31.058 --> 00:44:32.894
<v Madan, Jason>And I want to talk a bit more about
quality,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6053-1
00:44:32.894 --> 00:44:35.098
<v Madan, Jason>which we use every day as a way of trying
to do this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6059-0
00:44:37.538 --> 00:44:38.858
<v Madan, Jason>And the thing I want to point out.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6065-0
00:44:41.658 --> 00:44:43.949
<v Madan, Jason>As you may well know,
there's a two step process involving</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6065-1
00:44:43.949 --> 00:44:44.338
<v Madan, Jason>qualities.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6115-0
00:44:46.618 --> 00:44:49.002
<v Madan, Jason>So the first thing is you have a
questionnaire,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6115-1
00:44:49.002 --> 00:44:51.187
<v Madan, Jason>a lot of you all know about this.
You have.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6115-2
00:44:51.187 --> 00:44:54.763
<v Madan, Jason>It's not EQ5D which basically asked
people to rate their health on five</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6115-3
00:44:54.763 --> 00:44:57.396
<v Madan, Jason>dimensions.
And the idea is that these 5 dimensions,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6115-4
00:44:57.396 --> 00:45:00.923
<v Madan, Jason>mobility, self-care, usual activities,
pain and anxiety or depression,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6115-5
00:45:00.923 --> 00:45:04.449
<v Madan, Jason>no matter what your illness is,
they just pick up your quality of your</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6115-6
00:45:04.449 --> 00:45:04.698
<v Madan, Jason>life.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6131-0
00:45:06.378 --> 00:45:09.103
<v Madan, Jason>And how the answer is affecting that and
that's patient reported,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6131-1
00:45:09.103 --> 00:45:11.458
<v Madan, Jason>but then we apply a formula to then
calculate a quality.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6161-0
00:45:12.008 --> 00:45:15.482
<v Madan, Jason>That isn't coming from the patient.
It's a separate step,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6161-1
00:45:15.482 --> 00:45:19.855
<v Madan, Jason>and that's coming from people,
subjective judgements about, for example,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6161-2
00:45:19.855 --> 00:45:24.289
<v Madan, Jason>how much is the value of taking someone
paying from Level 3, for example,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6161-3
00:45:24.289 --> 00:45:25.008
<v Madan, Jason>which means.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6195-0
00:45:26.738 --> 00:45:30.993
<v Madan, Jason>About paying a lot of time to level 2,
which is on a moderate amount of pain</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6195-1
00:45:30.993 --> 00:45:34.254
<v Madan, Jason>compared to, say,
going on your usual activities from two,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6195-2
00:45:34.254 --> 00:45:37.459
<v Madan, Jason>I'm having some trouble to 1 so we have a
scoring system.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6195-3
00:45:37.459 --> 00:45:41.218
<v Madan, Jason>It's totally based on people's judgements.
It's totally subjective.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6249-0
00:45:42.418 --> 00:45:45.279
<v Madan, Jason>Why is that?
But again depends on who you're asking,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6249-1
00:45:45.279 --> 00:45:49.707
<v Madan, Jason>so I just want to illustrate this point
by looking at how when you do that second</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6249-2
00:45:49.707 --> 00:45:53.757
<v Madan, Jason>step, how it depends where you're asking.
So let's take this health state.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6249-3
00:45:53.757 --> 00:45:57.968
<v Madan, Jason>I can see someone might fill in one of
these EQ ID forms and said I've got no</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6249-4
00:45:57.968 --> 00:46:02.126
<v Madan, Jason>problems with my mobility or self-care.
I've got some problems with my usual</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6249-5
00:46:02.126 --> 00:46:06.338
<v Madan, Jason>activities and I'm feeling a bit anxious
and depressed. I'm in a lot of pain.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6266-0
00:46:07.138 --> 00:46:09.830
<v Madan, Jason>And they could be they could be suffering
from cancer treatments.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6266-1
00:46:09.830 --> 00:46:11.706
<v Madan, Jason>They could have back pain.
It doesn't matter.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6266-2
00:46:11.706 --> 00:46:13.338
<v Madan, Jason>The point is it's a genetic measure now.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6295-0
00:46:14.318 --> 00:46:17.204
<v Madan, Jason>How is?
How is that state valued relative to full</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6295-1
00:46:17.204 --> 00:46:21.765
<v Madan, Jason>health and it really depends on where
you're asking. So in Japan, for example,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6295-2
00:46:21.765 --> 00:46:25.345
<v Madan, Jason>it gets a weighting of .
547 where one is perfect out of good</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6295-3
00:46:25.345 --> 00:46:26.558
<v Madan, Jason>health, zero is dead.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6316-0
00:46:28.098 --> 00:46:33.458
<v Madan, Jason>Whereas down, say the UK is about 1.
157 and try and put that in a bit of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6316-1
00:46:33.458 --> 00:46:36.863
<v Madan, Jason>context,
one way to think about this is if you</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6316-2
00:46:36.863 --> 00:46:37.298
<v Madan, Jason>could.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6349-0
00:46:38.938 --> 00:46:42.061
<v Madan, Jason>Live for a year.
Imagine going to live for a year in this</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6349-1
00:46:42.061 --> 00:46:45.884
<v Madan, Jason>House. In this health state.
Imagine how the treatment that shown your</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6349-2
00:46:45.884 --> 00:46:49.653
<v Madan, Jason>life but brought you actual health.
So your quality of life improved,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6349-3
00:46:49.653 --> 00:46:53.099
<v Madan, Jason>the quality went down.
At what point would you think that was a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6349-4
00:46:53.099 --> 00:46:54.338
<v Madan, Jason>trade off worth making?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6370-0
00:46:55.088 --> 00:46:58.568
<v Madan, Jason>So for Japanese person,
they've only made that trade off.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6370-1
00:46:58.568 --> 00:47:02.288
<v Madan, Jason>If you were to to give them around six or
seven months of of.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6397-0
00:47:04.458 --> 00:47:07.645
<v Madan, Jason>Full health. If it was less than that,
they'd say no thank you.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6397-1
00:47:07.645 --> 00:47:10.883
<v Madan, Jason>I'll live like this. I'll. I'll.
I'll suck it up for auk person.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6397-2
00:47:10.883 --> 00:47:14.419
<v Madan, Jason>This implies that in fewer to just given
two months of perfect health,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6397-3
00:47:14.419 --> 00:47:17.458
<v Madan, Jason>they'd take that.
Compared to a year or something like this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6479-0
00:47:18.878 --> 00:47:22.567
<v Madan, Jason>And I just mentioned because all these
calculations are going on behind the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6479-1
00:47:22.567 --> 00:47:26.403
<v Madan, Jason>scenes when we presented with this cost
quality ratios and how subjective they</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6479-2
00:47:26.403 --> 00:47:29.267
<v Madan, Jason>are and how much they vary depending on
who you're asking.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6479-3
00:47:29.267 --> 00:47:33.006
<v Madan, Jason>So I really want to put your attention on
that and just the other thing that</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6479-4
00:47:33.006 --> 00:47:36.501
<v Madan, Jason>quickly is the picture on the bottom left,
which might look like a sun,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6479-5
00:47:36.501 --> 00:47:38.929
<v Madan, Jason>what sunspots,
but the clinicians will recognise,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6479-6
00:47:38.929 --> 00:47:42.570
<v Madan, Jason>this is actually the back of an eye
that's suffering from diabetic eye eye</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6479-7
00:47:42.570 --> 00:47:44.998
<v Madan, Jason>damage.
So one thing we did as well we looked at.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6487-0
00:47:46.938 --> 00:47:49.218
<v Madan, Jason>Screening for eye damage in diabetics in
Malawi.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6530-0
00:47:50.138 --> 00:47:54.230
<v Madan, Jason>We found that the impact of having visual
impairment in malaria is very different</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6530-1
00:47:54.230 --> 00:47:56.825
<v Madan, Jason>to the UK.
If you think about it as kind of you can</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6530-2
00:47:56.825 --> 00:48:00.917
<v Madan, Jason>sort of see what that is because things
like driving and reading are so much more</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6530-3
00:48:00.917 --> 00:48:04.210
<v Madan, Jason>important than UK national Malawi for
lots of contextual factors,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6530-4
00:48:04.210 --> 00:48:05.658
<v Madan, Jason>lots of subjective judgments.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6592-0
00:48:10.898 --> 00:48:15.317
<v Madan, Jason>So only that just the the problem we make
about this is we can we can use this</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6592-1
00:48:15.317 --> 00:48:19.625
<v Madan, Jason>things like EQ5D and we do them because
we're thinking about very high level</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6592-2
00:48:19.625 --> 00:48:22.982
<v Madan, Jason>decisions about do we prioritise cancer
over mental health.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6592-3
00:48:22.982 --> 00:48:25.667
<v Madan, Jason>So we need something that expands those
things.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6592-4
00:48:25.667 --> 00:48:30.143
<v Madan, Jason>But Even so the quality can miss so much
of benefit and we don't want to do it.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6592-5
00:48:30.143 --> 00:48:34.227
<v Madan, Jason>We don't have the right as health
economists to say if it doesn't fit in</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6592-6
00:48:34.227 --> 00:48:36.018
<v Madan, Jason>our EQ5D we don't care about it.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6606-0
00:48:36.818 --> 00:48:40.621
<v Madan, Jason>So we need to think about capturing value
properly and there's so many measures</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6606-1
00:48:40.621 --> 00:48:42.618
<v Madan, Jason>like ice cap that have been developed and.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-0
00:48:43.238 --> 00:48:47.173
<v Madan, Jason>Couple web webs and we had a PhD student
again another PhD student I worked with</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-1
00:48:47.173 --> 00:48:50.720
<v Madan, Jason>who enabled us to use Wem Web,
which is a well-being measure to do this.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-2
00:48:50.720 --> 00:48:54.509
<v Madan, Jason>So we need to make sure we're not missing
out on things that are important to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-3
00:48:54.509 --> 00:48:57.716
<v Madan, Jason>people when we we we try and value the
benefits of any treatment.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-4
00:48:57.716 --> 00:49:01.603
<v Madan, Jason>So there's all these things happening.
There's comparison of the ratios and the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-5
00:49:01.603 --> 00:49:05.052
<v Madan, Jason>point I'm trying to make I think today is
we can present these ratios.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-6
00:49:05.052 --> 00:49:08.891
<v Madan, Jason>We can present these lobby technical
diagrams but we're hiding a lot of values</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-7
00:49:08.891 --> 00:49:12.826
<v Madan, Jason>and behind us that we don't not because
we shouldn't be making them but actually</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6677-8
00:49:12.826 --> 00:49:13.118
<v Madan, Jason>maybe.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6700-0
00:49:13.838 --> 00:49:16.082
<v Madan, Jason>We do.
We want people to be aware of them and to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6700-1
00:49:16.082 --> 00:49:18.098
<v Madan, Jason>challenge them and to work with us on
them.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6700-2
00:49:18.098 --> 00:49:21.579
<v Madan, Jason>I think that that's the key thing we need
to maybe be better at doing South</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6700-3
00:49:21.579 --> 00:49:22.038
<v Madan, Jason>colonists.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-0
00:49:23.898 --> 00:49:27.552
<v Madan, Jason>And it's finally very and then very
quickly just to flag up that we do</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-1
00:49:27.552 --> 00:49:30.023
<v Madan, Jason>understand,
it's not just how much health we're</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-2
00:49:30.023 --> 00:49:33.678
<v Madan, Jason>creating, it's who benefits.
So another thing we need to do and we are</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-3
00:49:33.678 --> 00:49:37.745
<v Madan, Jason>doing better is understanding not just
how a treatment effects health overall,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-4
00:49:37.745 --> 00:49:40.782
<v Madan, Jason>but is it particularly benefiting some
groups over others.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-5
00:49:40.782 --> 00:49:44.231
<v Madan, Jason>So there's some really interesting
innovations around what we call</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-6
00:49:44.231 --> 00:49:48.195
<v Madan, Jason>distributive cost effect analysis.
And I know that's something we're looking</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-7
00:49:48.195 --> 00:49:50.975
<v Madan, Jason>to do more of in the trials in, in the,
in tune here.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6771-8
00:49:50.975 --> 00:49:53.858
<v Madan, Jason>And we hope we're coming to some of the
trials that we.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6802-0
00:49:54.488 --> 00:49:58.265
<v Madan, Jason>To really help us to show that we don't
just care about maximising things we care</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6802-1
00:49:58.265 --> 00:50:01.351
<v Madan, Jason>about who benefits as well.
So this is again another exciting area</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6802-2
00:50:01.351 --> 00:50:03.793
<v Madan, Jason>where we are trying to make ourselves
more relevant.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6802-3
00:50:03.793 --> 00:50:05.728
<v Madan, Jason>I think it's the point I'm trying to make.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6806-0
00:50:09.958 --> 00:50:11.118
<v Madan, Jason>So to summarise.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6862-0
00:50:13.898 --> 00:50:18.302
<v Madan, Jason>The reason why I had problems is is
fascinating and why I enjoy working on it</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6862-1
00:50:18.302 --> 00:50:22.085
<v Madan, Jason>is because we are trying to.
We are trying to maximise the health.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6862-2
00:50:22.085 --> 00:50:25.642
<v Madan, Jason>You can produce the society for giving
resources that we have,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6862-3
00:50:25.642 --> 00:50:29.877
<v Madan, Jason>which are limited and this requires some
difficult and challenging values.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6862-4
00:50:29.877 --> 00:50:33.717
<v Madan, Jason>It's not a technical thing to do and one
thing maybe we need to do,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6862-5
00:50:33.717 --> 00:50:37.726
<v Madan, Jason>we need to be better at as health
economists is making that a bit more</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6862-6
00:50:37.726 --> 00:50:38.178
<v Madan, Jason>obvious.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6880-0
00:50:39.058 --> 00:50:43.520
<v Madan, Jason>And not being afraid of illustrating that
and only way we can do that is through</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6880-1
00:50:43.520 --> 00:50:47.818
<v Madan, Jason>engaging with others, with clinicians,
with the public, with decision makers.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-0
00:50:48.718 --> 00:50:52.335
<v Madan, Jason>And that's when we we are we are doing,
we continue to do loyal and I think</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-1
00:50:52.335 --> 00:50:55.810
<v Madan, Jason>that's only going to make us more
effective. So as I do finally wrap up,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-2
00:50:55.810 --> 00:50:58.999
<v Madan, Jason>so I've got a bit over time,
but I don't want to seem like I'm not</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-3
00:50:58.999 --> 00:51:01.855
<v Madan, Jason>quite ready to retire yet.
I can't really afford to anyway.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-4
00:51:01.855 --> 00:51:04.663
<v Madan, Jason>We've still got quite a lot of years left
in the mortgage.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-5
00:51:04.663 --> 00:51:08.519
<v Madan, Jason>So you've given me 13 wonderful years in
the medical school maybe hopefully I'll</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-6
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:11.280
<v Madan, Jason>have a 13 more.
There are lots of projects I'm working on</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-7
00:51:11.280 --> 00:51:13.850
<v Madan, Jason>at the moment.
There's that I'm really excited about.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6951-8
00:51:13.850 --> 00:51:16.278
<v Madan, Jason>There's the correct confederation of
trials which.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6967-0
00:51:17.058 --> 00:51:20.487
<v Madan, Jason>Is looking at trying to do health
economics and trials work across multiple</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/6967-1
00:51:20.487 --> 00:51:22.338
<v Madan, Jason>related trials in the same patient group.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7035-0
00:51:24.088 --> 00:51:27.723
<v Madan, Jason>Jobs working with the Institute of
Employment Research here at 糖心TV.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7035-1
00:51:27.723 --> 00:51:31.660
<v Madan, Jason>There's currently working on transform,
looking at using some of those health</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7035-2
00:51:31.660 --> 00:51:35.699
<v Madan, Jason>point measures I've mentioned the broader
ones to understand how we can improve</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7035-3
00:51:35.699 --> 00:51:39.536
<v Madan, Jason>mental health in Nigeria and Bangladesh
and as well as the entire project I</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7035-4
00:51:39.536 --> 00:51:43.525
<v Madan, Jason>mentioned and then many more to come.
But I think the main thing is the reason</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7035-5
00:51:43.525 --> 00:51:46.806
<v Madan, Jason>why I want to stay here for another 13
years. It's all you guys,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7035-6
00:51:46.806 --> 00:51:47.968
<v Madan, Jason>the people I work with.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7044-0
00:51:49.138 --> 00:51:53.018
<v Madan, Jason>In chair and the CTU Cross University and
all our collaborators.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7056-0
00:51:53.848 --> 00:51:58.288
<v Madan, Jason>With only the occasional very,
very exception, the milestone.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7110-0
00:52:00.178 --> 00:52:03.460
<v Madan, Jason>Are wonderful people,
and that's what makes us coming to work a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7110-1
00:52:03.460 --> 00:52:05.768
<v Madan, Jason>joy.
So thank you all so much for for giving</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7110-2
00:52:05.768 --> 00:52:09.922
<v Madan, Jason>me this satisfaction and letting me to
find a home. I'm happy to take questions,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7110-3
00:52:09.922 --> 00:52:13.461
<v Madan, Jason>but it's a lovely day outside.
I understand. If you want to get out,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7110-4
00:52:13.461 --> 00:52:16.385
<v Madan, Jason>then sun and enjoy your lunches.
So I'll just say again.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7110-5
00:52:16.385 --> 00:52:20.590
<v Madan, Jason>Thank you all so much for your attention
today and for giving this opportunity to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7110-6
00:52:20.590 --> 00:52:23.258
<v Madan, Jason>have such an enjoyable career.
Thank you very much.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7164-0
00:52:41.688 --> 00:52:46.848
<v Madan, Jason>Tech fantastic. Thank you. You know,
Jason and some really great insights into</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7164-1
00:52:46.848 --> 00:52:51.486
<v Madan, Jason>the work that you you've done,
we've got about 5 minutes for questions</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7164-2
00:52:51.486 --> 00:52:56.647
<v Madan, Jason>that people have questions and I will
bring the microphone benefits of working</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7164-3
00:52:56.647 --> 00:53:01.808
<v Madan, Jason>with people that are online and actually
your your what people are thinking of</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7164-4
00:53:01.808 --> 00:53:03.768
<v Madan, Jason>their questions, your summary.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7191-0
00:53:04.578 --> 00:53:08.836
<v Madan, Jason>About the team and the thing that makes
you know 糖心TV, so special was actually,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7191-1
00:53:08.836 --> 00:53:11.299
<v Madan, Jason>you know,
the call with the question that I was</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7191-2
00:53:11.299 --> 00:53:14.378
<v Madan, Jason>going to ask because it was fairly clear
through your talk.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7257-0
00:53:14.968 --> 00:53:17.928
<v Madan, Jason>That you've worked with some fantastic,
you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7257-1
00:53:17.928 --> 00:53:22.486
<v Madan, Jason>teams and I think that's one of the
things that strikes me about 糖心TV and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7257-2
00:53:22.486 --> 00:53:26.630
<v Madan, Jason>tune is the collegiality and how
everybody, you know, pulls together.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7257-3
00:53:26.630 --> 00:53:30.241
<v Madan, Jason>And I guess it's a question for you to
reflect on, you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7257-4
00:53:30.241 --> 00:53:33.616
<v Madan, Jason>what are the core ingredients that are
brought together,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7257-5
00:53:33.616 --> 00:53:38.056
<v Madan, Jason>what you've described as really quite
interdisciplinary groups to tackle a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7257-6
00:53:38.056 --> 00:53:40.128
<v Madan, Jason>whole, you know, range of subjects?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7274-0
00:53:40.938 --> 00:53:45.231
<v Madan, Jason>You know that enables, you know,
people to, you know, to pull together and,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7274-1
00:53:45.231 --> 00:53:47.942
<v Madan, Jason>you know,
work in that kind of team approach to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7274-2
00:53:47.942 --> 00:53:48.338
<v Madan, Jason>things.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7333-0
00:53:51.088 --> 00:53:54.383
<v Madan, Jason>I think my location a lot.
I don't it's it's, you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7333-1
00:53:54.383 --> 00:53:58.149
<v Madan, Jason>there's so much to it.
I think it boils down to shared respect,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7333-2
00:53:58.149 --> 00:54:01.267
<v Madan, Jason>communication.
The fact that we all want to do this,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7333-3
00:54:01.267 --> 00:54:03.915
<v Madan, Jason>achieve the same thing. And I think,
Jeremy,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7333-4
00:54:03.915 --> 00:54:08.152
<v Madan, Jason>the people that work in this field,
they're motivated by need to make a</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7333-5
00:54:08.152 --> 00:54:12.624
<v Madan, Jason>difference. And they're often not.
It's not so much about personal success,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7333-6
00:54:12.624 --> 00:54:13.448
<v Madan, Jason>personal egos.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7345-0
00:54:14.258 --> 00:54:16.417
<v Madan, Jason>But also an openness to different points
of view,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7345-1
00:54:16.417 --> 00:54:19.138
<v Madan, Jason>and I think almost there's bit of self
selection that goes on.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7407-0
00:54:19.818 --> 00:54:23.400
<v Madan, Jason>That if you want to be a, you know a,
you know, a big deal, you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7407-1
00:54:23.400 --> 00:54:27.034
<v Madan, Jason>you can do that in many ways,
but if you enjoy being part of the team,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7407-2
00:54:27.034 --> 00:54:30.054
<v Madan, Jason>if you enjoy having impact,
if you enjoy having, you know,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7407-3
00:54:30.054 --> 00:54:33.841
<v Madan, Jason>working with people that will think very
differently to you, you'll stay.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7407-4
00:54:33.841 --> 00:54:37.833
<v Madan, Jason>So I think some of it's self selection we
try and you know we try and be very</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7407-5
00:54:37.833 --> 00:54:41.006
<v Madan, Jason>friendly. We try and be very commutative.
I know that CTU is,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7407-6
00:54:41.006 --> 00:54:44.538
<v Madan, Jason>you know it stands for cake Trials unit
because we do one for cakes.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7439-0
00:54:45.338 --> 00:54:48.732
<v Madan, Jason>And other things like that matter too.
And I'll shout out to people like James</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7439-1
00:54:48.732 --> 00:54:51.783
<v Madan, Jason>and your well-being initiatives.
So I think it's a combination of self</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7439-2
00:54:51.783 --> 00:54:54.835
<v Madan, Jason>selection and one being being on the same
track and the fact we don't,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7439-3
00:54:54.835 --> 00:54:57.585
<v Madan, Jason>we don't just let it happen,
we do actively care about people's</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7439-4
00:54:57.585 --> 00:54:58.058
<v Madan, Jason>well-being.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7441-0
00:55:00.168 --> 00:55:00.608
<v Madan, Jason>Thank you.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7449-0
00:55:02.258 --> 00:55:05.618
<v Madan, Jason>Did anyone either online or in person
have a question?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7456-0
00:55:11.958 --> 00:55:14.478
<v Madan, Jason>Hello I knew you would see. You know what?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7462-0
00:55:19.848 --> 00:55:21.168
<v Madan, Jason>Yeah. OK. Can you hear me now?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7476-0
00:55:23.098 --> 00:55:29.738
<v Madan, Jason>It's really lovely to hear about all your
research. It hasn't yet likewise 13 years.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7492-0
00:55:32.738 --> 00:55:37.698
<v Madan, Jason>But understanding, understand please,
what does the health monitor do?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7495-0
00:55:39.938 --> 00:55:40.418
<v Madan, Jason>What is the?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7498-0
00:55:42.058 --> 00:55:42.378
<v Madan, Jason>What, sorry.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7505-0
00:55:45.298 --> 00:55:47.218
<v Madan, Jason>What does it do?
You mean that the the VAS?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7520-0
00:55:48.488 --> 00:55:50.850
<v Madan, Jason>I mean,
I think that's a question for all the can.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7520-1
00:55:50.850 --> 00:55:53.768
<v Madan, Jason>I think if you ask who you ask,
you'll get a different result.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-0
00:55:55.338 --> 00:55:59.121
<v Madan, Jason>The the people tend to use the vows that
connect the vows and do we use it much?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-1
00:55:59.121 --> 00:56:02.999
<v Madan, Jason>And my experience and I've been to what
other my colleagues think. Often we don't,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-2
00:56:02.999 --> 00:56:05.708
<v Madan, Jason>but we have found.
Sometimes people do find the vas a lot</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-3
00:56:05.708 --> 00:56:07.764
<v Madan, Jason>easier.
So just for those of you who don't,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-4
00:56:07.764 --> 00:56:10.520
<v Madan, Jason>so you're you're filling your answer
those five questions,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-5
00:56:10.520 --> 00:56:12.856
<v Madan, Jason>you'll say how your health is in five
dimensions,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-6
00:56:12.856 --> 00:56:15.098
<v Madan, Jason>you have like a thermometer that says on
scale,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-7
00:56:15.098 --> 00:56:18.228
<v Madan, Jason>naughty to 100 where 100 is wonderful.
Naughty basically I'm dead.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7592-8
00:56:18.228 --> 00:56:20.938
<v Madan, Jason>I can't barely cross the line.
How are you feeling today?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7652-0
00:56:21.638 --> 00:56:25.974
<v Madan, Jason>When we asked both of those,
then we tend not to use the VAS as much,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7652-1
00:56:25.974 --> 00:56:31.053
<v Madan, Jason>but I think maybe we should be using that
more because maybe it's a more it comes</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7652-2
00:56:31.053 --> 00:56:36.195
<v Madan, Jason>down to what is what do people find more
intuitive and maybe and maybe I don't and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7652-3
00:56:36.195 --> 00:56:39.973
<v Madan, Jason>this is my expertise.
Colleagues may step in and say there's</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7652-4
00:56:39.973 --> 00:56:44.247
<v Madan, Jason>gurvans to answer this question,
but maybe actually the vast is what</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7652-5
00:56:44.247 --> 00:56:46.478
<v Madan, Jason>people find, it's usually better so.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7702-0
00:56:47.258 --> 00:56:50.717
<v Madan, Jason>It's there. People should use it,
but we often slips by and the key thing I</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7702-1
00:56:50.717 --> 00:56:54.403
<v Madan, Jason>think to come back to my themes today is
maybe we should asking our participants</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7702-2
00:56:54.403 --> 00:56:57.817
<v Madan, Jason>what they think about the Vads.
So over to your process evaluation guides,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7702-3
00:56:57.817 --> 00:57:00.365
<v Madan, Jason>what do they think about do they do they
like the Vars,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7702-4
00:57:00.365 --> 00:57:02.778
<v Madan, Jason>do they like the thermometer?
Do they find it silly?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7721-0
00:57:03.338 --> 00:57:06.847
<v Madan, Jason>Should do anything we should be using it
more. Let them tell us what to do with it.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7721-1
00:57:06.847 --> 00:57:09.855
<v Madan, Jason>I think maybe I'll bring in my answer.
Thank you, Alan. Great question.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7721-2
00:57:09.855 --> 00:57:10.858
<v Madan, Jason>I think that was coming.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7728-0
00:57:13.258 --> 00:57:15.418
<v Madan, Jason>Great. OK. Well,
I think in the interests of.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7731-0
00:57:17.978 --> 00:57:19.178
<v Madan, Jason>Thank you very much, Jason.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7741-0
00:57:21.018 --> 00:57:24.298
<v Madan, Jason>Lovely to know where you disappear after
what you do.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7748-0
00:57:26.738 --> 00:57:28.058
<v Madan, Jason>When we when we come.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7754-0
00:57:31.778 --> 00:57:33.418
<v Madan, Jason>Question is about time scales and.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7756-0
00:57:35.898 --> 00:57:36.778
<v Madan, Jason>Briefly, a lot of times.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7776-0
00:57:37.468 --> 00:57:42.751
<v Madan, Jason>Because if your PhD students who are
working to a type of timescale producing</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7776-1
00:57:42.751 --> 00:57:45.868
<v Madan, Jason>themselves to get their PhD on this
original.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7810-0
00:57:49.818 --> 00:57:54.193
<v Madan, Jason>Trials taken by the trials,
which you've got a separate time scale.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7810-1
00:57:54.193 --> 00:57:57.218
<v Madan, Jason>You know the governments have got time
scales,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7810-2
00:57:57.218 --> 00:58:02.558
<v Madan, Jason>they must really in a sense frustrating
your way to balance all these time scales.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7810-3
00:58:02.558 --> 00:58:07.127
<v Madan, Jason>How long does a project need to?
And it's a very difficult question to</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7810-4
00:58:07.127 --> 00:58:07.578
<v Madan, Jason>answer.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7827-0
00:58:08.128 --> 00:58:14.561
<v Madan, Jason>Project need to go on for before you can
see an effectiveness coming out of the</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7827-1
00:58:14.561 --> 00:58:15.848
<v Madan, Jason>work being done.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7842-0
00:58:17.498 --> 00:58:22.458
<v Madan, Jason>Changing in practise and benefits I mean
how long do you keep?</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7875-0
00:58:24.778 --> 00:58:28.195
<v Madan, Jason>So I'm reminded that when you ask that
question, Peter, thank you. Again,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7875-1
00:58:28.195 --> 00:58:31.797
<v Madan, Jason>I didn't know what question you were
going to ask. Like Helen, I had an idea.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7875-2
00:58:31.797 --> 00:58:34.245
<v Madan, Jason>I had no idea.
So that I think of my feet the when I</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7875-3
00:58:34.245 --> 00:58:36.323
<v Madan, Jason>started as training as an accountant,
I was.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7875-4
00:58:36.323 --> 00:58:40.018
<v Madan, Jason>When someone said if your senior sends
you an e-mail, then says this is urgent.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7940-0
00:58:40.798 --> 00:58:45.152
<v Madan, Jason>And you have to reply by I mean coming
out of university, I said end of the week,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7940-1
00:58:45.152 --> 00:58:49.613
<v Madan, Jason>the great answer was like within the hour.
So I think there's definitely part of it</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7940-2
00:58:49.613 --> 00:58:53.331
<v Madan, Jason>is different ways of thinking but also
balancing this rigour and this</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7940-3
00:58:53.331 --> 00:58:57.314
<v Madan, Jason>effectiveness and there's no I mean
there's a trade off I think inevitably</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7940-4
00:58:57.314 --> 00:59:01.403
<v Madan, Jason>and I've been I think wolves will have
different views on that trade off and</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7940-5
00:59:01.403 --> 00:59:05.598
<v Madan, Jason>it's a mix because in some ways you do
need years to run a definitive clinical</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7940-6
00:59:05.598 --> 00:59:08.838
<v Madan, Jason>trial is my impression others will know
it's better than me.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/7944-0
00:59:09.578 --> 00:59:10.418
<v Madan, Jason>And there's a risk of getting it wrong.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-0
00:59:11.258 --> 00:59:14.467
<v Madan, Jason>But then if you talk to people in
government or in in care boards,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-1
00:59:14.467 --> 00:59:16.575
<v Madan, Jason>they may need an answer like within a
week.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-2
00:59:16.575 --> 00:59:19.546
<v Madan, Jason>So I guess part of it is knowing what we
can do as academics.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-3
00:59:19.546 --> 00:59:22.756
<v Madan, Jason>We're not Tracy trained to do that,
and there are people in state,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-4
00:59:22.756 --> 00:59:25.055
<v Madan, Jason>civil service or boards who can.
So there's no,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-5
00:59:25.055 --> 00:59:28.648
<v Madan, Jason>there's no single answer to your question.
I never give a straight on yes,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-6
00:59:28.648 --> 00:59:31.235
<v Madan, Jason>no answer to any question.
People will tell you that.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-7
00:59:31.235 --> 00:59:34.924
<v Madan, Jason>But many of the things to do is think
that we different different people can</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8005-8
00:59:34.924 --> 00:59:36.458
<v Madan, Jason>tackle different different ways.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8017-0
00:59:37.258 --> 00:59:39.180
<v Madan, Jason>We can't.
We can't do rapid artists of things,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8017-1
00:59:39.180 --> 00:59:40.898
<v Madan, Jason>but we do need to work with people who do.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8056-0
00:59:41.678 --> 00:59:44.423
<v Madan, Jason>The stuff we do, I think,
does take years rather than months,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8056-1
00:59:44.423 --> 00:59:47.922
<v Madan, Jason>but that doesn't mean we can't engage
with and talk to people who need answers</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8056-2
00:59:47.922 --> 00:59:51.465
<v Madan, Jason>next week and see you know how much we
can guide what they're doing and and how</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8056-3
00:59:51.465 --> 00:59:54.255
<v Madan, Jason>much we might say, well,
actually hold on here and how much we</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8056-4
00:59:54.255 --> 00:59:55.318
<v Madan, Jason>might be willing to say.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8103-0
00:59:56.898 --> 00:59:59.115
<v Madan, Jason>OK.
We think we're sorry you're coming from.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8103-1
00:59:59.115 --> 01:00:02.613
<v Madan, Jason>You need to do something now.
Go ahead and do it. So we do need years,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8103-2
01:00:02.613 --> 01:00:05.027
<v Madan, Jason>I think.
But we need to be able to talk to those</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8103-3
01:00:05.027 --> 01:00:09.018
<v Madan, Jason>people who don't have years and see how
we can help each other and how we can at</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8103-4
01:00:09.018 --> 01:00:12.269
<v Madan, Jason>least provide you with some kind of
insight and advice. But yeah,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8103-5
01:00:12.269 --> 01:00:15.324
<v Madan, Jason>I don't know. I mean,
just not set up to do things like that,</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8103-6
01:00:15.324 --> 01:00:17.098
<v Madan, Jason>are we? That's just not how we work.</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8118-0
01:00:19.468 --> 01:00:22.541
<v Madan, Jason>Yeah. Thank you. Very lovely.
Let's put our hands together and thank</v>

dc189df2-cf59-44fb-a0f7-56dea35c8aef/8118-1
01:00:22.541 --> 01:00:23.788
<v Madan, Jason>Jason again for a fantastic.</v>